Jim Obergefell's husband, John Arthur, didn't live to see the day when same-sex marriage was legal and recognized in all 50 states.
Yet, Arthur played a key role in making it happen.
"John deserved to die a married man," Obergefell, the plaintiff in a landmark Supreme Court decision that legalized same-sex marriage, said in an interview with Morning Edition's Leila Fadel.
Today marks the 10-year anniversary of the Supreme Court handing down its Obergefell vs. Hodges ruling that states could not deny marriage to same-sex couples like Obergefell and Arthur.
Arthur had been diagnosed with ALS, or Lou Gerigh's disease, two years prior. Obergefell and Arthur, who had been together for over 20 years, never believed they could get married, but in 2013, when the Supreme Court partially struck down the federal Defense of Marriage Act, the two realized that could change.
"We had talked about marriage early on in our relationship back in the mid-'90s, but we finally had this opportunity to get married and to have the federal government recognize us," Obergefell said.
By then, Arthur could no longer walk or move most of his body, which made it difficult for them to travel to a state where same-sex marriage was legal. So friends and family donated over $10,000 for a medically equipped plane to get the couple to Maryland to be married on the tarmac of the Baltimore Washington International airport.
"For the past 20 years, 6 months and 11 days, it's been love at every sight" Obergefell said during their marriage vows.
The 2013 United States v. Windsor ruling only required the federal government to recognize same sex marriage conducted by states and allowed states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages. That meant that while the federal government recognized Arthur and Obergefell's marriage, their home state of Ohio, didn't recognize their Maryland marriage.
Obergefell discussed how his legal fight for marriage equality began, the future of LGTBQ+ rights in the United States, and reflected on the 10-year anniversary of Obergefell v. Hodges.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Interview highlights
Leila Fadel: When the country finally recognized gay marriage, what was that like for you and for so many Americans?
Jim Obergefell: You know, it was this moment of, wait, we exist. We are seen by our nation's highest court and our relationships, our marriages, our families can actually exist on an equal footing with others.
Fadel: For people who don't know your story, why did you take up this fight all those years ago?
Obergefell: This fight isn't something I ever dreamt I would do. But it's surprising what you are willing to do and where you can find the motivation and the courage to do something. John, my partner of almost 21 years, was dying of ALS, and it wasn't until the Supreme Court struck down the Federal Defense of Marriage Act with their decision in United States vs. Windsor, that we finally had this opportunity to get married. And that's what we did.
All we wanted to do was spend John's remaining days as husband and husband. But then because a local civil rights attorney in Cincinnati heard our story, he reached out and said, I would like to meet. And in that meeting, he pulled out a blank Ohio death certificate and said, "Do you guys understand? Do you get it when John dies? His last record as an Ohioan, his last official record as a person will be wrong because your word says marital status at time of death. Ohio will say he was unmarried. And Jim, your name won't be listed as his surviving spouse."
Fadel: And that's because you were only married in Maryland where the state recognized it.
Obergefell: Correct. But we were lawfully married in Maryland. And we deserve to have our marriage recognized by the state we called home. John deserved to die a married man. We simply wanted dignity. And that's what motivated us to say, yes, let's fight the state of Ohio. And that's what led to that filing in federal district court. And that's what took me all the way to the Supreme Court. We wanted to exist.
Fadel: And today, in the court of public opinion, I mean, LGBTQ+ marriages are accepted. They're part of life now. It's been 10 years since that case. What has changed in that decade?
Obergefell: Well, you know, I love that it has changed from that perspective. A majority of Americans support marriage equality. And I love the fact that there are queer kids. Over the past 10 years, they've grown up in a world where the only future they see includes the right to marry the person they love no matter what happens. And, you know, there are other things happening in our country that aren't so wonderful for the queer community.
Fadel: I want to talk about that. We're also in a moment in which a lot of rights groups, LGBTQIA+ communities are worried about the rollback of the very rights that you fought for. The administration has targeted LGBTQI+ services and monuments, like cancelling the LGBTQ+ service hotline, removing Harvey Milk's name from a ship. There are state legislations and battles over legislation around gender affirming care for transgender youth and whether that should be banned or not. There are schools banning books often related to race, racism, LGBTQ+ communities. What is it like to look at that? As you think about this anniversary.
Obergefell: In one word, it's terrifying to see all of these attacks on the queer community, especially the most marginalized and the most vulnerable part of our community, the trans community. These are people who want nothing more than to be authentically who they are and to be able to live their life without apology and without fear. But the entire queer community and in fact, all marginalized communities are under attack under this administration. So it is terrifying. There are moments I'm incredibly scared about what the future holds. But then I remind myself, we have been through these things before. We've been through worse times as a community and what have we done? We have always raised our voices to say we exist, we are here. We're not going to put up with that. And that's what we will keep doing. But I know these days there's just the added fear, because in the past when we stood up, you know, the people at Stonewall, all of those people in the past who stood up, they were doing that to gain rights. And what we're experiencing now, what we're facing now is the likelihood of losing rights that we have gained over the past. And that makes this just a much more fraught time for our community, because it isn't like we're just fighting to gain rights. We are fighting to maintain and hold on to the rights we have gained over the decades.
Fadel: Ten years. When you sit on this anniversary. What goes through your mind today?
Obergefell: You know, of course, I think about my late husband, John, and I wish that we had had more than three months as husband and husband. I wish that we had any time together as a couple where we could know that our state or our government, the federal government, wasn't trying to erase our existence. So I always think of John.
I also think about this young woman at the University of Tennessee who told me that if it weren't for marriage equality, if it weren't for a lawsuit, if it weren't for a Supreme Court decision, she would have committed suicide. And the fact that this one person told me that I know there are others who felt the same way, but she found a reason not to take her own life. She found a reason to keep living because she finally, as a closeted queer kid, saw a future that included her. So that's what I think about constantly. It reminds me of just how important and meaningful this decision is and the hope that it gives to people. And I just keep moving forward knowing that all we can do is use our voices and work hard to be included with the people.
This digital article was edited by Obed Manuel. The radio version was edited by Lisa Thomson.
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