JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
With President Maduro and his wife being detained in New York, we want to understand how this moment feels for Venezuelans. We've reached independent journalist Gabriela Mesones Rojo in the capital city of Caracas. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
GABRIELA MESONES ROJO: Hi, Juana. Thank you so much for having me.
SUMMERS: I'd like to start by asking you how you're doing, and if you could just walk us through what this weekend was like for you.
ROJO: The weekend was very silent. After the whole bombing situation happened, everything was pretty quiet aside from a couple of reports from colectivos in some popular areas. These reports are growing. Apparently, today there has been huge presence of colectivos in the street. Apparently they are stopping people in the street, checking their cellphones. And they - what they're looking for is information on whether people approve the taking of Maduro.
SUMMERS: And as you've been speaking to people, what has been top of mind for people that you have spoken with? How have they been reacting?
ROJO: So people in Venezuela are very scared, actually. There's huge uncertainty on basic things, like are we going to find food to feed our families in the next couple of weeks? And of course, there's huge uncertainty on what's going to happen now. How is this transition going to look now? Of course, Chavistas regime is still in place, so I think there are a lot of questions, like will there be a second bombing? What's going to happen to political prisoners? Are political detentions still going to take place? Of course, there are so many more questions. What's going to happen with our oil industry? What's going to happen with paramilitary groups?
So yeah, if I had to summarize it in two words, I would say uncertainty and contradiction. It's also very contradictory because people are happy that Maduro was taken. People are happy that he's going to face justice. But of course, fear has been a huge part of Venezuela, especially the last year, that we've seen a huge wave of repression. So the last year has been marked by fear, and I think that's a little bit the situation still.
SUMMERS: Now, President Trump has said that the United States will run Venezuela, and Secretary of State Marco Rubio has offered some clues as to what that might mean, but we don't yet have a clear picture. Meanwhile, Maduro's vice president, Delcy Rodriguez, has been sworn in as interim president, and her brother is president of the National Assembly. And opposition leader Maria Corina Machado might be expected to have a role. And I understand that politically you identify as left wing and Machado's party is more right wing, but what have you heard from Venezuelans about the future of the government?
ROJO: One thing is taking away the dictator of the country, another thing is having the Venezuelan dictatorship end, and another thing is having a true transition to democracy with democratic values. Of course, most Venezuelans believe that this should include Maria Corina Machado and Edmundo Gonzalez Urrutia who were our elected leaders in what was probably Venezuela's most important democratic effort of the last year.
Also, to give you some context, in the 2024 presidential elections it was proven with the voting tallies that Maduro had stolen the election, basically. So ideally, what Venezuelans mostly wish is that this transition will include these elected political actors. However, it doesn't seem that it's going to be like that. Trump has barely mentioned Maria Corina and Edmundo. So I think this is the biggest uncertain point that we have at the moment. How is the government going to look and what is going to be the role of political actors who took place in the last presidential election?
SUMMERS: Gabriela, what do you think it's important for people here in the United States to keep in mind as this story continues to develop?
ROJO: I think it's pretty important to understand that this is not necessarily an ideology left versus right issue. Venezuelan politics is - it's complex and nuanced, and it has been particularly complicated in the past 25 years since Chavez took power in 1998. It has been more complicated since Maduro took power in 2013. And the last year has honestly been brutal for Venezuela. Venezuela has had a humanitarian emergency since 2014. Almost 8 million migrants and refugees have left the country. So I think what's really important is to understand that human rights should also be part of the conversation and not just a very biased left versus right conversation.
SUMMERS: That is independent journalist Gabriela Mesones Rojo in Caracas, Venezuela. Thank you.
ROJO: Thank you, Juana, for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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