AILSA CHANG, HOST:
The defeat of longtime Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban at the polls over the weekend has sent ripples far beyond the borders of that country. Orban has been a central figure in the mobilization of the global far right against inclusive democracy. NPR domestic extremism correspondent Odette Yousef joins us now to discuss. Hi, Odette.
ODETTE YOUSEF, BYLINE: Hey, Ailsa.
CHANG: So, I mean, even though Hungary has only a population of less than - what? - 10 million people, Orban himself has been, like, a pretty significant figure on the global stage, right? Can you give us some context as to why that is?
YOUSEF: Sure. So Orban's political career has been unusual in Europe. You know, he's had 16 years as the prime minister of Hungary. And that's made him the longest-serving prime minister in the EU. But he also has shown how a far-right leader can take an inclusive democracy and turn it into what some call an electoral autocracy. And so he has been a model for a growing global far-right movement in the West.
And he has also positioned himself at the center of that movement by creating a network of institutions, Ailsa, basically think tanks that make up the connective tissue for this movement. And they formulate policy ideas and strategies to make their ideas more palatable to the public. And they connect key players in the global far right across country lines. So Orban's loss is significant for that reason. You know, there are questions now about the future of that infrastructure and whether his loss reflects a rejection of the ideology behind it.
CHANG: Interesting. OK. And what about the connection between Orban and the far right here in the U.S.?
YOUSEF: Well, it was no secret that the Trump administration felt close to Orban. You know, as recently as last week, JD Vance was in Budapest, you know, stumping for Orban. But Orban's influence in the U.S. during this U.S. presidency is much deeper than I think many Americans may be aware. Heidi Beirich says Project 2025 - basically, the Trump policy roadmap - comes from ideas modeled in Orban's Hungary. Beirich is cofounder of the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism.
HEIDI BEIRICH: They took ideas around migration, a hardcore migration position, anti-LGBTQ policies, the anti-woke kind of idea that, you know, tech companies should not be regulating hate speech. These are all ideas that were lifted from Orban and imported into the United States.
YOUSEF: And it's not just the ideas themselves, Ailsa, that were replicated here but the tactics used to popularize those ideas, as well.
CHANG: What kind of tactics?
YOUSEF: Well, Orban used the politics of fear to rally support around his restrictive immigration proposals, for example. You know, some European countries have seen a true increase in immigrants from Africa and the Middle East. That is not happening in Hungary. But still, Orban stoked fears that demographic replacement threatened Hungary. And you have to remember, Ailsa, that replacement theory is an extremist conspiracy theory.
CHANG: Yeah.
YOUSEF: And Orban was a major political figure who turned that into policy. In 2024, President Trump promised to do the same when he ran for a second term here in the U.S. And it's fair to say that today, the extremist replacement theory has gone mainstream. It's considered just another political viewpoint.
CHANG: So then, Odette, do you think there are any lessons to be learned when it comes to Trumpism here in the U.S.?
YOUSEF: So Orban primarily lost because of two issues, a poor economy and government corruption. The question is, you know, to what extent was it also because people may have been fed up with the assault on equal rights or on women's bodily autonomy, or on higher education or on a free press? And the fact is, the new government that Hungary has elected is still conservative. It is not clear what difference this will make in free expression and inclusion there.
And Beirich says, you know, this speaks to a huge shift in Western politics. She says the era of progressive liberals versus small-C conservatives is over. It's now the middle versus the far right, and unless something structurally changes, this may be where things stay for a while.
CHANG: That is NPR's Odette Yousef. Thank you so much, Odette.
YOUSEF: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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