Michael Jewett spoke with NEA Jazz Master Kenny Barron about his appearance at The Ark with the University of Michigan Jazz Showcase.
More information about the show is HERE.
TRANSCRIPTION:
Michael Jewett: Tomorrow night in Ann Arbor, the University of Michigan Jazz Program presents their Jazz Showcase Concert. The guest performer this year, tomorrow night, NEA Jazz Master and pianist Kenny Barron, who is joining us for some music and conversation here on WEMU. Here's some of Kenny Barron's artistry with his trio from the album, "Book of Intuition," his magnificent piece, Lunacy. 89.1 Jazz.
Michael Jewett (cont.): 89.1 WEMU, celebrating 60 years of broadcasting. That is music from pianist, NEA Jazz master, Kenny Barron, who we are thrilled to have in studio today. Kenny Barron is performing as the guest performer with the University of Michigan Jazz Studies program. Their Jazz Showcase concert is tomorrow night at The Ark in Ann Arbor, eight o'clock show time. If you have any questions or whatnot, at this point, theark.org--great place to go. Welcome to WEMU! Good morning and thank you for braving our lovely Michigan weather, Kenny Barron!
Kenny Barron: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Michael Jewett: What a thrill to have you here at WEMU! Just by way of introduction, I thought it's always good to start. You're from Philadelphia.
Kenny Barron: Right.
Michael Jewett: You're Philadelphia, one of the world's great, great music cities in general, but jazz cities in particular. Do you have like a lasting.... if you had to tell somebody about Philadelphia jazz or whatnot, or maybe just you coming up, something that makes Philly so, so special.
Kenny Barron: Well, you know, Philly had a wealth of really a lot of young musicians my age when I was coming up. I started playing around Philly when I guess I was 14 years old. And by the time I was 15, 16, I started meeting people my own age who were playing Sonny Fortune and I played Jimmy Vass, Arthur Harper, Reggie Workman, who was a few years older than me. But I started meeting those people. Philly was a great place, and there were lots and lots of places to play at that time--little, small clubs and things like that.
Michael Jewett: Was it advantageous having a sibling, your brother, that was--
Kenny Barron: Oh yeah! It was advantageous because I learned a lot from him, and our personalities are totally different, musically.
Michael Jewett: I've heard that from other musical siblings, that were both musicians, but totally different.
Kenny Barron: But that was okay. He leaned towards what I call left of center. He loved Cecil Taylor, for instance, and he worked with Cecil Taylor for some time when he moved to New York. It was in the Mingus band for a while. In his own writing, he utilized 12-tone roll concepts and things like that. So, he was on a different path, which is great.
Michael Jewett: For those who don't know, this is Bill Barron we were mentioning, Kenny Barron's older brother.
Kenny Barron: Yeah.
Michael Jewett: Yeah. Okay. I've asked this from at least, I think, a couple of other Philadelphians and whatnot. You had an important run with Detroiter Youssef Latif earlier in your career.
Kenny Barron: Right.
Michael Jewett: You've collaborated with Regina Carter a couple times, another Detroiter. Do you feel a special affinity or connection or whatever to Detroit? I'm thinking Philadelphia and Detroit have a lot in common. They're also kind of like unique scenes in their own way, but there's also kind like a Detroit, Philly--well, they're both modern jazz capitals, I guess you could say.
Kenny Barron: Yeah, yeah.
Michael Jewett: Do you feel any kind of a special connection to Detroit artists?
Kenny Barron: Yeah, I do. And it's interesting because most of my influences on piano come from Detroit.
Michael Jewett: Okay, okay. This is what we're learning today, class!
Kenny Barron: Yeah.
Michael Jewett: Who were these pianists?
Kenny Barron: Thomas Flanagan, Hank Jones, Roland Hannah.
Michael Jewett: Sir Roland Hannah.
Kenny Barron: Sir Roland Hannah, yeah.
Michael Jewett: I have a funny story about Roland Hannah with my uncle. My uncle is Major Holley's little brother.
Kenny Barron: Ah, I played with Major Holley.
Michael Jewett: Okay. So, Oscar, that's my uncle, and I are talking jazz, which we often do you. He's a jazz fan, too. He keeps talking about this man, Hack Hannah. Hack Hannah. Well, you've never heard Hack Hannah. I'm like, "You don't know anything." I feel like I should know somebody. And after about 30, 40 minutes. I'm like, "Uncle Oscar. Do you mean Roland Hannah?" He says, "Yeah, absolutely! Hack Hannah!" I said, "Well, then why didn't you say Roland?" You know, Hack Hannah was like a nickname. But anyway, Sir Roland Hannah, Hank Jones--I had to interject my funny story, my Roland Hannah story. What was it about these Detroit pianists that, to get back on point, what about these players attracted you?
Kenny Barron: Well, they had similar styles, but one of the things I liked, first of all, was the touch. Tommy had a very light touch. Hank also had a light touch, as did Roland. And they also played when they improvised. It was always very melodic. You know, it made a lot of sense. You know, it's like a speech with punctuation. So, when they played, everything was there: periods, commas, semi-colons, all of that.
Michael Jewett: It's interesting that you use linguistic terms to describe how they played musically.
Kenny Barron: Yeah.
Michael Jewett: OK, all right. Now, I'm going to go back and listen to some favorite Hack Hannah, Hank Jones, and Tommy Flanagan pieces. I'm speaking with Kenny Barron, who is Philadelphia's emissary of Detroit jazz piano styles. We'll take that. Mr. Barron is performing tomorrow evening in Ann Arbor at The Ark--headlining basically as a special guest--featured guest performer for the U-M Jazz Showcase Concert. Complete information, more information, times and whatnot, theark.org. After the time with Yousef Latif, you formed this band. You're part of the band Sphere. We played you and Charlie Rouse, Buster Williams.
Kenny Barron: And Ben Reilly.
Michael Jewett: And Ben Reilly earlier today. This was such a widely acclaimed band. What was the genesis like that, and how did you know you had something special when the four of you got together?
Kenny Barron: Well, Ben, Buster and myself were part of a rhythm section for Ron Carter when Ron had a band with two basses. So, when that band broke up, Buster and Ben and myself, we actually performed together a lot for different artists that would come into New York as a rhythm session, like Sweets and Lockjaw. They would come into town. We'd be their rhythm section. Eddie Harris would come to New York. We'd be the rhythm section. So eventually we said, "You know, we should get a horn player and form a band." And Ben was the one who suggested Charlie Rouse, and the idea of doing Monk's music was because we all love Monk music, but also we had two people in the band now who had played with Monk, So, they kind of had an idea of how things should go in terms of tempos, the right tempos and things like that. In other words, they knew how his music should be played. So, we met with Nelly, his widow, wife at the time, and his son too, just to kind of get their blessings.
Michael Jewett: Okay.
Michael Jewett: And we went into the studio with Rudy van Gelders and recorded. One of the things we did though, we wanted to make sure that the music that we recorded was in his publishing company.
Michael Jewett: Okay. The business end of it.
Kenny Barron: Yeah. So, we did that. And as luck would have it, the day we recorded was the day he passed away.
Michael Jewett: I never knew that.
Kenny Barron: Yeah, he passed away that morning.
Michael Jewett: I knew it was close in time, but I didn't know.
Kenny Barron: Yeah, it was the very same day. We didn't discover until I was driving bus because we recorded in New Jersey. Rudy Van Gelder and I was driving Buster back to New York and turned on the jazz station in New York. And they announced that Monk had passed away that morning as we were recording. So, that was the devil emphasis for us to continue. You know, the idea wasn't to be a tribute band to Monk. So, we played other music, but we wanted our very first record to really be about that--to be about Thelonious Monk. And every record since that time that I have been on of my own, and in with Sphere, always included some of Monk's music.
Michael Jewett: The Monk influence, you've also done a piece for Bud Powell. You have a great piece called Bud Like. Let me make sure I enunciate clearly. What about Monk and Bud together. How do you feel about that? I mean, this is 2025. This is some 80-some odd years before the two of them really kind of emerged in the mid-40s. What about that lasting impact of Bud Powell and Thelonious Monk in the music?
Kenny Barron: Well, they used to hang out a lot, and I think they had a lot of respect for each other. But the style that I grew up listening to accidentally came out of Bud Powell. And he was so influential in my own playing. And I mean, in addition to Tommy and Hank, but they also owed a debt to Bud Powell. Bud was definitely one of my heroes and somebody I'd listened to a lot, you know? So, yes!
Michael Jewett: I'm speaking with Kenny Barron, NEA Jazz Master, pianist Kenny Barron. He is performing tomorrow evening for the U of M Jazz Showcase event that is happening at The Ark in Ann Arbor. More information at theark.org. Here at WEMU for this month, it's April. It is Jazz Appreciation Month. We have this thing going on: Why Jazz? Some of our favorite recordings, maybe favorite encounters with musicians or favorite live events. Can you remember a moment when you were younger? And we're talking about going to a concert, this is maybe somebody's first concert tomorrow night, or just early at it. Can you remember an early concert that you went to, or an early event that really, like, "This was it!" Jazz was definitely it for you. Because I'm gonna say, you were mentioning Detroit Pianist, my first jazz concert, Barry Harris was on the bill. And I wasn't familiar with Barry Harris, and it's like, I was kind of into Monk and kind of into Miles and Coltrane and heard Barry Harris. and I was like. 'This is it! That's how it's done! That's the thing!" I'm like 17 or 18 at the time. But can you remember hearing maybe a pianist or whatnot that really sold you as a young artist?
Kenny Barron: Oh, probably early McCoy, when he was living in Philly.
Michael Jewett: Ah, right!
Kenny Barron: Yeah, because he's from Philly. I got to hear him before he before he joined Trane.
Michael Jewett: Before he's in the Jazztet. It's like really early McCoy Tyner.
Kenny Barron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before the Jazztet. Yeah, so hearing him around clubs in Philly, and he was amazing. He was really amazing. And then, he left Philly with the Jazztet.
Michael Jewett: We've been talking about desert island discs and whatnot. And i have to tell you what a thrill it is, and I couldn't forgive myself if I didn't tell you. You are part of one of my absolute favorite set of recordings, and I have like this group of recordings that kind of like restore my faith in humanity. It could be the bleakest times, and I mean I want to just tell you a compliment. When "People Time came out," the duets with Stan Getz recorded at Cafe Montmartre. I was just enthralled with it and just love it! And then, subsequently, it's originally a double disc set. It's called "People Time." If you're not familiar with this recording, your musical life is just woefully incomplete. Please go get a copy of People Time! But there's also a....what am I saying? Like a complete now set. It's like the complete People Times, which like stretches, I think, it's a total of seven CDs, as opposed to the original CD. I know this music was made 1990, 91, but I feel like it could have been made--it's like 30-some-odd years ago--it could made tomorrow. It's just really, really timeless, and it's the two of you. And you just have this chemistry and it's just this embrace of the music. And it's two people having like this dialog. You're talking about like, in linguistic terms. It's just breathtaking music. So, one of my desert island discs, which I returned to and just, now that it's seven CDs. And basically, you're at the gig, you know? Just like load up the player and camp out with Kenny Barron and Stan Getz. Also, the first time I saw Stan Getz, you were in the band. I saw the quartet, and I don't think I was really...I don't think it's as sophisticated.... well, that's not the right way to put it. But I wish I had the ears I had now, back then, to really appreciate it. I think you were touring. I think maybe Rufus was on the tour?
Kenny Barron: Yeah, Rufus. And maybe Victor Lewis.
Michael Jewett: Yeah, that sounds about right.
Kenny Barron: Yeah.
Michael Jewett: That sounds about, right.
Kenny Barron: Yeah.
Michael Jewett: You had a pretty impressive run with Stan Getz. Do you have an enduring memory of the time with that group or with him?
Kenny Barron: Yeah, yeah. I mean, one of the things that I loved about him was that he was very lyrical. He could make you cry, especially playing a ballad. He could do that. He could really make you well up with tears, you know? And some nights, he would do that to me. He was so, so beautiful. But the duo thing, that was interesting, because when we did it, we didn't rehearse or anything. We started off in Boston. That was the very first concert. The rehearsal was, "You know this song?" "Yes." "Well, can you do it in this key?" That was it. That was the rehearsal. We didn't go over anything. When we recorded in Denmark, I think we were there for three or four nights. That's the way it went. He would just start something, call it, and we'd just play. And there was no outline about who was supposed to do what or when. We just played and responded to each other in the moment. For me, it was great. I mean, it had to be in the moments because if we played something very fast, how am I going to do this? If we played a bossa nova, how am I going to accompany him? I had to make those decisions right then and there. It's not like playing with a bass player where you have somebody keeping time for you. No, I had to do that. So, it was a great experience, and I loved every moment of it!
Michael Jewett: That is a magnificent, magnificent piece of work!
Kenny Barron: Thank you.
Michael Jewett: Magnificent moments! Kenny Barron: tomorrow night in Ann Arbor at The Ark or theark.org. It's the U of M Jazz Showcase Concert. Professor Ellen Rowe is here with us who's keeping track of everything. It'll be the student ensembles, whatnot, faculty, and then Mr. Barron. Students in the earlier part of the concert and then Kenny Barron, along with faculty members. That's tomorrow night at The Ark in Ann Arbor. Eight o'clock showtime, theark.org. We're gonna let you go. We're going to play a recent trio outing with one of the collaborations you've done with the great bassist Dave Holland and drummer Jonathan Blake. Kiyoshi Kitagawa, who you've worked with for many years in your trio, is the, I guess I want to say, usual trio. The last time I think you played here, or an earlier time you played here at Detroit Jazz Festival during the whole lockdown pandemic thing, that's the band that I got to hear. Well, piano, bass, and drums. I mean, that's kind of like the foundation of everything. What do you get out of trio playing at this point? How does this work for you? And what do you look for or in terms of musical partners for piano, for bass and drums?
Kenny Barron: Well, first of all, for people who listen, because we all have to listen to one another. So, for a bass player, I definitely need a good sound, a good soloist, but a person who listens has a great sound, a great time--that's important. And I need that from the drummer, too, who can be exciting, but not overbearing. Because he's got the loudest instrument.
Michael Jewett: Ah, okay.
Kenny Barron: But who knows when to use that sound and when not to. And then Jonathan has that.
Michael Jewett: Wow, fantastic!
Kenny Barron: Yeah.
Michael Jewett: And, of course, Dave Holland.
Kenny Barron: He's amazing! Amazing!
Michael Jewett: I have to tell you once again, thank you to Professor Rowe for making this possible and braving the elements and whatnot. Well, if it was a little cooler, this would be snow. So, I guess we'll deal with this. Tomorrow night, it's going to be partly sunny and breezy. So, for the concert tomorrow night, there you go. This is happening at The Ark tomorrow evening, theark.org for complete information. Maestro Kenny Barron, thank you so much for being so gracious with your time and these stories! It is such a thrill! Such a thrill! This is Kenny Barron, Dave Holland, and Jonathan Blake from the set "Without Deception." We'll close with some Monk music and some always a good perspective. This is called "Worry Later." We'll just worry later. Tomorrow night at The Ark in Ann Arbor. Thank you so much, Kenny Barron!
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