John Bommarito: 89 one WEMU. You're listening to The Song Break. There's a track from Judith Owen's new record, Comes Alive. 12 albums, a couple of EPs, a handful of singles including a cover of Spinal Tap’s “Christmas with the Devil” with her husband, Harry Shearer. And now Judith Owen is joining me on The Song Break. Hello, Judith!
Judith Owen: Hi, there. How nice to see you again.
John Bommarito: It's good to be in your presence in some way, shape or form, and we haven't been in the same room in a while. The new album, Comes Alive, has been featured on the program for several weeks now. In fact, I have managed to squeeze in every song from the album across all of my shows. So, sometimes I play two, sometimes I play one, but the entire album has been played on the show.
Judith Owen: And I am very, very flattered indeed and am thrilled to hear that. Really, I am.
John Bommarito: It is my pleasure. It was like I said before we went live, that it was just really exciting for me to get a record by an artist I was already familiar with. I’m not as much of a jazz person as most of my coworkers are. I am a jazz person, but not as deeply as the people that work here and have worked here for decades are. So, when I see an artist that I'm already familiar with from my other world, I'm like, oh boy, I can play that!
Judith Owen: Yeah, I know that. I get it. And honestly, because, you know, you've seen me in my Singer songwriter, though I hate that phrase, but, you know, you've seen me in that. Last time we got together was with Leland Sklar, and I was on the road with him doing my music. This is…I'm an artist who believes that you should be, as I think artists must do, you should be able to go and be and do whatever you are. You are not just able to do but are fine at doing it. And most people don't know me for my jazz chops, shall we say. But it's actually something that I started doing from the earliest age. And I grew up as a classical and jazz artist. And so, it came as a surprise to most people. But it wasn't until COVID when I was trapped in New Orleans with where we live, where I suddenly realized that actually I needed to do something that was just filled with joy and uplifting and hopeful and funny. One of the greatest comments I get from people when they hear this music or my versions of these songs, or when they see me live, which is the most, I think, most important thing to me is as a live performer. But I cannot tell you how many times I hear people saying, I didn't even think I like jazz, but I love this. And it's like, no, I get that. It's, you know, there's so many types of jazz is unbelievably serious, atonal, get deep with it jazz, which is fantastic. And it's whatever pleases you and that reaches you. But this what I'm doing is the most instant, gratifying, joyful. It has an immediacy. Because this is the pop music of the 40s and 50s. It still makes you want to jump up and dance. It still makes you want to smile and feel great and feel alive. You basically get to forget what's going on in the rest of the world. You get absolutely embroiled in this music. It's such a relief and that's the reason I did it. And luckily for me, it's been an enormous success. The first album, that I did, which this is the live version of is, one called "Come On and Get It." That streamed multi-millions which was the shock of my life, as you can imagine. Because it was like, what?!! This was to me, this is just a dream of mine because this is something I've kept very on the quiet, on the down low that I'm just a massive jazzer. You can hear it in my own music. Of course you can. But this is this is like really taking it 100% now. So, this is the live version we recorded earlier this year at, Marion's Bern, Switzerland, which is a legendary jazz venue. And, boy, was it fun. It's been fun ever since I started standing up and doing this music the last unbelievably hard years, but yet unbelievably musically joyful years for me have been, have been a bit of a gift, I have to say it very unexpected.
John Bommarito: Well, I was questioning the title "Comes Alive" because it's like announcing your birth 20 years after you put out your first album. But now I think I understand it's coming alive because you're coming into a type of music you probably always wanted to do since you started recording music, and it's just that it's a new birth essentially.
Judith Owen: It is. And "Come on and Get It" was all about my love affair with the first jazz artist I heard that really opened my eyes up to who I really wanted to be as a performer, as a person, because my father was the opera singer at Covent Garden and La Scala and a very, very successful opera singer. He had this…. he was a very unusual person because he had this incredible collection of 45s by women who he had loved when he was a kid, like 1950. Nellie Lutcher, Julia Lee, Mary Lou Williams, Pearl Bailey, but especially the Nellie Lutcher and the Julia Lee, these women at the piano who were, like, brimming with sexual joy. And they were at a time when women were meant to be decorative objects, you know, who were singing about romance. These women were singing about female sexuality and celebrating it. And I have to say that, you know, five years old, I didn't get what this was really about. All I heard was joy, power, and this unapologetic sense of being a powerhouse on stage, of being in charge, in control, and a consummate performer and musician. And I got it right, even though I was just hearing it. I got that right by these women. And this was from an authentic place. They made me happy when I was a kid. They made me happy in situations that were absolutely as unhappy as could be, and they were that lifeline for me, as I said, as an artist as well as a person. And so, during COVID, I got to do a deep dive into their lives and into them, into their music. And what's extraordinary for me is knowing that these women who have been so quickly forgotten. But then, you know, isn't everybody in this business, for God's sake. And there’s the few that remain consistently famous. But ultimately, these women were trailblazers. And they opened the doors for the Aretha Franklin's and the Nina Simone's, you know, and they really, really were the bridge between the Bessie Smith's and the Ma Rainey's and then the next set of female performers. But these were the ones that put their time in to say, no, I'm the bandleader. I'm the one in control. I'm the one that's calling the shots, whether you love it or not. And at a time when that, like I said, it wasn't okay. So, I found myself opening people's eyes and ears to these women again. And in a spectacularly sweet moment of full circle, when I first came to L.A. to be with my husband in the mid 90s, I got to see Nellie Lutcher and just about one of her last performances ever. Which is extraordinary because my father had never seen her, even though she was a huge success in London. Big star. She was doing a show at the Catalina's Bar and Grill in Hollywood, and I couldn't believe it could be her, because, you know, it was like, how old is she? She'd been retired for 30 years. Self-enforced retirement after she was right royally ripped off by the music business. Shock, horror. And she comes back, and I get two tickets for me and Harry to go and see. I'm still in shock and disbelief that it could be her. And she comes out, this tiny little birdlike creature sits at the piano and just kills. She could have been 21. She starts singing. The first song I ever heard of hers is “Fine Brown Frame”, and I was just in tears. I couldn't believe what I was hearing and seeing. And in the room, I didn't know at that time, was her granddaughter, eight years old. And I've become good friends with Kyra now and have learned so much more. All the things I would have liked to have asked Nellie, but I was too shy to ask at that time. I wasn't who I am today. Today I would have just like literally thrown her in my car and driven off with her. And asked her all these questions. But now I get to hear the full story from her granddaughter and it's quite a thing to believe. All these women's lives read like movies. They were extraordinary women, and I'm proud to share their stories and their music and to interpret their music. And that includes Peggy Lee and Julie London and Blossom Dearie. I'm thrilled to be able to sing this music and for it to be so beloved, especially the live shows. I mean, that's what's extraordinary to me. Like I said, I really have come alive as a performer. I really have, thrown off those shackles and become as unapologetic as these women have taught me to be.
John Bommarito: When you first started performing live as a younger performer, what kind of things were you doing? All originals or were you doing covers back then as well?
Judith Owen: No, it's always been originals. And it was a sweet mix because if I did do covers, I would rewrite them, which is what I've always done, you know, I'd rearrange them, rewrite them for me so they sounded like something entirely different. Because that's always been something that I like to do. I think that the originals of all songs are the best they'll ever be, but I think if you're going to bring yourself to it now, you're going to have a different interpretation of something you must really see it through fresh eyes and honor great songs. So, I started out that way. When I was in school, I actually was planning to be an actress because, you know, I had the successful, singer father, the last thing I wanted to do was follow him. So, I kept my music very private. It seems to me that's been the theme of my life is keeping a lot of things private, because there is always that thing of not wanting to compete. Not wanting to be in the shadows of somebody who's hugely successful, especially not when they're your parent! So, I wanted to be an actress, and I am an actress. That's, that's part of the live performance. That's what really is a vital part of stagecraft. And so I went to performance art school at the Brit school. It was a Brit school type thing up in North London. And it was when I was there doing music, not actually doing acting and dance and music as a sort of side thing, not as “I'm going to be a serious musician,” that I actually played one of my songs for the first time. And from that moment on, it was like, why aren't you doing this? What? What is going on? This is who you are. And so, I studied jazz singing when I was doing that course because I'm just a jazz.., as in of this era, I'm talking about, you know, 30’s, 40’s, 50’s Great American Songbook and into the 60s too, of course. Because it's that's another piece of the puzzle which is just so sublime. But I'm very clearly… I think the three things that are much clearer, and you can hear it in my music is classical, is jazz and blues and is a deep Welsh folk ballad state of eternal melancholy, which really is always in my own music. But those are the three things you hear. In these recordings, what you hear is just utter joy. Joy, relief, escapism. And I think I just needed it so badly. And I knew that the audience, of course, we all needed it in COVID. And guess what? We still need it. Perhaps even more because things have changed irreparably, I think in this world post-COVID. And things have certainly changed politically in a way that is, you know…the world, the landscape is nerve wracking at best. And I think there is, something about this music that... it's amazing to me that my audience, whether it be in Italy or Switzerland or London or New York, where I’m just on my way to next, the audience is like 20s up. And a lot of 20s. And I'm amazed by this and thrilled by it, because that speaks of how accessible this music is and how the classic nature of it that it still hits and that now my very strong female centric connection…that just makes me so happy because, you know, I think about myself as a girl listening to these women and thinking, “that's what I want to be.” I want to be unapologetic and confident and feel like I'm enough and really be that kind of a…have that strength and that power on stage. And nothing makes me happier than seeing those young women and meeting them afterwards and hearing the exact same things from their mouths, which is I want this this is what I want to be. This is… how do I what you're doing? And it's just amazing to think about, again, that full circle. But it feels right and good and I've been the musician like all creatives, like all artists, but like people that write their own music, I'm doing it. It's all about my life and those around me and the things I go through in this, the things I struggle with and the things I succeed and fail at, but mostly fail it. It's a real distinct pleasure now to be able to bring, because now in my life I’m singing this music, but I get back to that piano and I do the thing that I feel like is being my best friend. And the thing that I've been doing since I was a little girl, and that is being that powerful woman at the piano. And it feels so good. And if you told me that making this record would have expanded my horizons and expanded me as a person, I would not have believed it. But I'm here to say that that's exactly what happened.
John Bommarito: That's wonderful. You're listening to The Song Break on 89 one, WEMU. Judith Owen is my guest today on the program. We're talking to her a bit about her Comes Alive disc that's been out for a good portion of the year, and a bit about her, well, in general. You're really quite a gifted interpreter of other people's songs. Unique takes on Donna Summer, Deep Purple, Soundgarden, Survivor, things that don't really go together with your catalog. Is there a process to reimagining a well-known song like that? Or do you just come up with an idea? I've never been able to think of a song in any way other than the way I hear it, so I don't know how somebody like you does that.
Judith Owen: Well, I've a I have a vastly overactive imagination that comes in really, really handy, obviously. And, and like I said, I'm very good at morphing into other states and mindsets as an actress. But I think more importantly that, like I said, the imagination and being a writer myself and an arranger is it's about finding my own voice in it. So, when I took, for example, Drake's “Hotline Bling,” that would be the last thing you would ever imagine somebody like me would cover.
And what I look for in in a song to make it my own is, you know, I read those lyrics and of course, that basically is just a booty call. I mean, that's all it is. So, very hard to be able to sing. I mean, I could have gone one of two ways. One which would be like really enjoying it, indulging in it like “Hot Stuff,” by Donna Summer, which I'd put that kind of Jobim angle on instead. But with “Hotline Bling”, I realized because I have that, like I said, I have that melancholy, I have that drama in me, that theatricality, because I have to put myself into the lyrics. I have to see myself in them and pull upon my own experiences. And so, I remembered a time long before I was married, of course, when I would wait forever for this one love of mine to call me who kept me dangling. Dangling in desperation. And of course, the less he called, the more I wanted him. And it was torture. And I remembered that feeling. And that was what guided the sound of the of my arrangement. Because suddenly these words became about that desperation for somebody to call you, and the longing and the yearning and the suffering. And then, of course, the song changed to being this very dramatic, haunting, semi-classical, piece. And that's why it works, because I can't really sing anything that I don't believe or have an authentic investment in myself. And if it's a cover of a song like that where I'm at the piano, it has to be something for me that relates to a real thing that happened in my life. So, I'm very good at re-imagining myself in this situation. And it starts with the lyrics. It really does. Because if you don't find a place in lyrics which are truthful to you, you will never get off the starting blocks. To me it does. It will never sound real, it will not sound authentic. And I pride myself upon doing songs like, you know, “Black Hole Sun." I did it in a Dave Brubeck sort of “Take Five” way. But "Black Hole Sun" I relate to so deeply because I have a lifetime of struggles with depression and anxiety and knowing that sense of being in the darkest of places and of being just in an unearthly place.
And so, the words immediately made sense to me, and I didn't need to feel anything other than this is what I know. What I knew when I was in this, and thank God, no longer am. But then to sort of have this contrast of having this like, waltz, 5/4, full Brubeck vibe on it, there's something about it made it even more harrowing. I guess it's the tension between this sort of lilting beauty and the harshness and ugliness of the words made total sense. Because what I know is somebody who says I always struggle with that is that the way people saw me. The face that I showed to the world was one of health and happiness. But inside, I was in the darkest place. And that's what my interpretation of that song sums up, which is the sound, which is the face and the interior, which are the lyrics. So that's… I mean…it's a very... it's just kind of deeper, I'm sure than, than maybe you would expect, but I really do. I take it to those places because like I said, these are songs. I don't do anything that I don't love. I don't do anything that I don't authentically believe in, and think is extraordinary and affects me. And I think that's what lends it its authenticity. I think that's why you hear it and you'll take it and believe it and enjoy how very, very different my interpretation is. I mean, the one that's on “Comes Alive.” I mean, there's two. “Comes Alive” also has some of the next people that I fell in love within my life as I was growing up. And that's of course, Aretha and Nina Simone and Louis, Louis Jordan and somewhat Nina Simone and Screamin’ Jay Hawkins. But it's something in between that because it absolutely… it has a rock and roll attitude, and it has the guts. It's coming from a place of devastated anger. Which, you know, I really like to make the lyrics shine. Because a lot of the time I think lyrics, like I said, with “Hotline Bling” you just think it's one thing. Well, maybe it's not. Maybe it's something else too. Maybe it could be something else. But “I Put a Spell on You” is a song about, you know, again, a woman who is just with the worst kind of an unfaithful lover who just wants to put the magic on them to make them stop doing that thing. I think there's a real, powerful brutality to the to the way that I do that. That also makes it like a screaming blues thing. I just love the fact that it's so guitar heavy and has got that feeling. But it's that place in the piano I love so much. I'm a real gospel piano player. I'm a classical, but there's gospel so clearly in that. And then the other one that really speaks to me, I'm a huge Jobim fan. I mean, I just love melody, which is why I'm always attracted to things which are pulling with the melody first. I just adore melody. And so I think “How Insensitive” is one of the most extraordinary songs. Because it speaks from the perspective, and we've all been here. This is what I mean. It's something we all know. How clever of him to write this, a song about how it feels to be the person who's breaking someone else's heart, who's telling the other person, I don't love you anymore, or it's over. And seeing the pain and devastation on that person's face and it breaking your heart. I mean, who has ever written a song like that? Who has ever tackled that subject? And it's glorious. So, I take it to a very classical place. I take it away from its Brazilian nature, and I take it into a much more self-aware place where I hope…I hope the listener really gets to focus on those lyrics, which are, if you're a decent human being, how absolutely terrible it is to break up with somebody that you care about. So that's the flip side of what most songs are about. As we know.
John Bommarito: “Comes Alive” is the new album from Judith Owen. She's joining me on the program today. And did you plan on recording that show, or did you record a bunch of shows and just select that one because it was special?
Judith Owen: Well, when you play at this incredible venue…and by the way, it's so remarkable a place and people who perform a lot…you know, I wouldn't call myself a 100% jazzer, as you know, I'm so glad that Lady Gaga and Beyoncé, are making this now an absolutely acceptable thing. Because guess what, everyone! It's natural for artists to actually float over the lines, to blur the lines, to do many different things and go into different styles. Because we're not just one thing. Even though the industry wants to pigeonhole you. That's the end of my little lecture. But ultimately, I'm not a life's jazzer. That's not who I am. I have these jazz chops. I am jazz, but I'm classical. I'm everything else. I get to go to this club where all these jazzers know about this club, because it's so famous. And on the walls, of course, are the people that played there, just to name a few. On one wall is Oscar Peterson, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, Dizzy Gillespie, and I'm just like, what?! So already I'm in heaven. This is just…this is it. This is what I love. What you do there is you stay there. It's the most joyful experience. Hans and Marian, after which Marian’s is named, is one of the most extraordinary places where you stay there for six days and you do two shows, three on a Saturday, for five nights. Imagine. So, you do 11 shows in total. But the great thing about it is that you're in Bern, Switzerland, which you haven't been, is a medieval city the likes of you...it's like a fairy tale. It really is. Rapunzel let down your hair. And it was winter when we did it. So, the snow is on the ground and now you're in a medieval city, and it's snow on the ground too. And you basically…all I would do would just get up and walk in the snow a bit, not too much. I’ve got take care of my voice, and then I'd warm up and then sleep a lot, have a good time. And then I get in the lift to the elevator and go down to the club and perform. Then go back up and then and wash, change, go back down and do another show. It is a musician's Paradise. You know, we never get to stay and do…rarely does a touring artist get to stay that long anywhere and do things. So, I know that Terence Blanchard just played there and it's like the Christian McBride’s. It's just, you know, it is one of those places where they book the greats. I mean, it's a real honor to do it. And going in, I thought, well, you know what? The live show is now so muscular, so powerful, it would be a crying shame not to record and film this. There's all these songs. I filmed the whole lot. The artwork is obviously from that, as far as the cover and everything, but each one of the tracks that I release individually, there is a video that goes with them as a standout video on its own. So that you can go to YouTube and see what this was like. It's thrilling, because the thing I haven't spoken about, which is the one of the most important pieces of the puzzle, is that being in New Orleans, I have the most extraordinary band of musicians from New Orleans who are really a dream. Because people from there and people who are drawn to it like I am, go there because it's one of the last places on this earth where there is a music scene like that. Where all kinds of music are played all over town, every night of the week. Where you get to sit in. There are clubs I can go to and I will sit in. I'll be invited up, I'll sit in. And that's like a throwback to the 40s or something where it's like, “yeah, bring your ax, just sit in.” And it's like, what?! So, the joy of it all, the sexiness, the grit, the grease of the music from New Orleans is really special. Of course, it's the birthplace of jazz, but there's so much more than that now. There's so much classical music, there's so much singer songwriter. There's every kind of music that you want. But these musicians bring something that I've never seen anywhere else. So, the reason I call them The Callers, they used to be The Gentleman Callers, but they're not gentlemen, so I removed that. I'm happy to say they're not gentlemen. So, they are called The Callers because there is this incredible thing that happens live. Where, and I've only seen it in New Orleans, where if somebody is doing something great or they play a riff or a line or solo, or I sing something that the guys like, they'll shout at me. They will shout out. They will shout at each other in a way that is…t's a kind of it's a mini triumph of camaraderie. And when you talk about the communication, this incredible communication that musicians have on stage, when it's good, when it's right. Somebody just wrote about my live show, and how the communication between me and the band is verging on telepathic. And it's true. It's true. And you can see that in the live performances, the live videos. Because, you know, it's all improv. That's what jazz is, the beauty of jazz. The beauty of jazz is that I'll never sing it the same again. I'm never going to solo the same again. They're not going to ever play it the same again. That's called lightning in a bottle. And you've got your tent poles where you know how the song goes. You know that you have to honor the certain, the things that you have to honor. Because ultimately the song is the song, the melody is the melody. And you want to have that moment, and then you are off. You are off! So, you state it, and then you leave it behind and it is organized, brilliant chaos. And that's where the magic happens. And I have to say, it was very hard to choose between, nights, but, you know, I could even remember it after the fact of certain nights that you just thought, good grief, can this get any more exciting? Could this get better? And yes, it can, because we just played in the Copenhagen Festival. And, again, it's like every night there's something that makes that you come off and go, “oh, that was remarkable.” That was remarkable because no one knows it's going to happen. Nobody's prepared for it. Nobody's trying too hard. You're not trying to recreate something that happened the night before. You're always pushing, searching. Sometimes you fail. A lot the time, luckily, it's an exciting and wonderful thing. And yes, that is jazz. And that's why jazz has influenced me so much since I was a kid in all that I do, because I've always recorded live in the studio. I've always loved live performance more than anything, because of the freedom that gives you to be able to go where you need to go and do what you want at any given moment to take those beautiful liberties. And it's a really, wonderful high wire act that I get to do with these remarkable musicians. And they really are on a level that I have to say, you'd be hard pushed to find anywhere else in the world.
John Bommarito: So, I'm just going to throw in one more question, then we'll wrap it up. Some of your collaborators on previous records include Richard Thompson, k.d. lang, Tom Scott, Julia Fordham, Keb Mo, Cassandra Wilson. It made me think. Would your next album possibly be a duets album?
Judith Owen: You know what? I think you're reading my mind. What's going on? I am most definitely going to have duets on the next album. It might not be all duets, but I certainly need to. It's about time, because every time I've done that, it has been just sheer joy. Sheer exquisite joy. So it's time I did it again.
John Bommarito: Well, thank you for sharing some time with me and your stories. Looking forward to sharing more of this album Comes Alive with our listeners here at WEMU and I really, really enjoyed our chat.
Judith Owen: Thank you so much for having me. Always a pleasure to see you.
John Bommarito: Always a pleasure to see you. Come back and visit us in Ann Arbor. There’s a great club called The Blue Llama.
Judith Owen: Just invite me. Go on. Invite me. I'll be there.
John Bommarito: Come on in! Have a great rest of your day.
Judith Owen: Bye, love.
John Bommarito: Bye.
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