ABOUT DR. MIKE SHRIBERG:
Mike Shriberg’s (MS ’00, PhD ’02) work focuses on Great Lakes water policy and institutions, local and state energy policy, campus sustainability/carbon neutrality and sustainability leadership. Prior to coming to SEAS, he was the Great Lakes regional executive director at the National Wildlife Federation. Major initiatives included advocacy for federal Great Lakes restoration; ensuring water affordability and access; preventing the introduction of aquatic invasive species; reforming Great Lakes water management; building Great Lakes resilience; combating environmental injustice; and engaging urban youth.
Shriberg’s academic expertise focuses on organizational change, water/climate policy and leadership for sustainability. Prior to the National Wildlife Federation, he served as the education director at the Graham Sustainability Institute and as a lecturer in the Program in the Environment and Earth & Environmental Sciences at U-M. Previously, Shriberg was the policy director at the Ecology Center and the director of Environment Michigan. He also previously served as the environmental studies program director and as an assistant professor at Chatham University.
ABOUT LISA WOZNIAK:
Lisa’s career spans over two decades of environmental and conservation advocacy in the political arena. She is a nationally- recognized expert in non-profit growth and management and a leader in Great Lakes protections. Lisa is a three-time graduate from the University of Michigan, with a bachelor's degree and two ensuing master's degrees in social work and Education.
Lisa serves a co-host and content partner in 89.1 WEMU's '1st Friday Focus on the Environment.'
RESOURCES:
Michigan League of Conservation Voters
University of Michigan Water Center
"Worst Case Oil Spill: High Risk Areas Near the Straits of Mackinac"
TRANSCRIPTION:
David Fair: Happy Independence Day! And welcome to a holiday edition of WEMU's First Friday Focus on the Environment. I'm David Fair, and I know I'm not alone in wishing on this July 4th, our vast fresh water resources in Michigan and around the country were free of pollution and contamination. It's simply not the case. The Great Lakes constitute the world's greatest fresh water supply. And a major oil spill--it could be catastrophic. That's why there are concerns about the Enbridge Energy Plan to encase its Line 5 pipeline beneath the waters in the Straits of Mackinac. That's our focus today, and here to help guide the conversation is my co-host, Lisa Wozniak. She is Executive Director of the Michigan League of Conservation Voters. And Happy Fourth, Lisa!
Lisa Wozniak: Happy Fourth to you, Dave, and to everyone! Free of pollution and contamination--well, that's definitely the dream. We're not even close, but the good news is that there are hard-working and very dedicated people and organizations continuing to make progress to that end. And our guest today can certainly be counted among them. Mike Shriberg is a friend and an associate professor at the University of Michigan School of Environment and Sustainability, and, as of June 1st, is the new director of the University of Michigan's Water Center. Mike has vast experience beyond that as well. He previously served as associate director of the Cooperative Institute for Great Lakes Research, Great Lakes Regional Executive Director at the National Wildlife Federation, and he served on former Michigan Governor Rick Snyder's Pipeline Safety Advisory Board. So, Mike, congratulations on the new position! And welcome back to our First Friday Focus on the Environment!
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Well, thanks! Thanks so much for having me! Glad to be here!
Lisa Wozniak: When it comes to Line 5, the political landscape has changed. The Army Corps of Engineers recently has approved a permit for Enbridge to move forward with its proposed tunnel project, despite orders from Governor Gretchen Whitmer to decommission the pipeline and lawsuits pursued by both the governor and the attorney general, Dana Nessel. So, I'd love to hear from you. What's the status of the efforts to shut down Line 5?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah. I mean, there's been so many twists and turns, it's hard to summarize it succinctly. But basically, the state of Michigan and the Bad River Band in Wisconsin have told Enbridge to shut down, legally and other ways. Enbridge has said, "No, we're not going to do that." And it's playing out in the courts. In the meantime, Enbridge's strategy, so to speak, is to build a tunnel under the Great Lakes to avoid the Straits of Mackinac, where it's lying on the botto,. into go around the Bad River band by building the pipeline around peace. So, there's a lot going on at a high level. That's the summary of where we're at.
David Fair: You've spent a good deal of your career, Mike, focused on Line 5. In your estimation, what is at stake for Michigan's environment, its economy, and overall way of life?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Well, I don't mean to be hyperbolic about it, but I think the state's stakes can't be higher. And it's not just because of the issue. And the issue is critically important. I mean, this is about the heart of our Great Lakes. This is about our drinking water. It's about our economy. It's a better environment. But it's also about indigenous rights. It's about water rights. And it's really about the state's rights to protect the Great Lakes. Enbridge has essentially said the state of Michigan does not have a right to protect the Great Lakes, and that's what's playing out right now in the courts.
David Fair: Well, Enbridge, of course, would contend that it is to our economic benefit to allow this project to move forward. So, I'm curious as to your assessment of the safety rating Enbridge deserves.
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah. Enbridge's safety record is is really poor. And I'll just say I've had the privilege to talk to folks in the industry quietly. And we talk about Enbridge. They kind of shake their head and say, "You know they're not really good actors even amongst the oil industry." So, we have an actor here that simply can't be trusted. And I'd say on economic arguments, which we'll see as Enbridge has spent millions of dollars in public saying that we need Line 5 economically. But when they've been forced under oath to testify to the economic need of Line 5 as they were in the Wisconsin case, they say something quite different. They say that if Line 5 was shut down, there would be no meaningful impact to prices or the economy as a whole.
David Fair: You are listening to WEMU's First Friday Focus on the Environment. I'm David Fair. My co-host is Lisa Wozniak. And today, we're talking Line 5 with the new Director of the University of Michigan Water Center, Mike Shriberg.
Lisa Wozniak: Once again, Mike, congratulations on your new role as the Director of the University of Michigan Water Center! And years ago, the Water Center produced a seminal report measuring the impacts of a potential oil spill in the Straits of Mackinac from the Line 5 oil pipeline. And now the Center is working to document the history of Line 5. What role do you see that report and the Water Center playing in the Line 5 conversation as we move forward?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah. I mean, the Water Center's role overall is to bring high quality information to debates and issues about the Great Lakes. And that's exactly what's played out with Line 5. So, that seminal study looked at all these different scenarios where if Line 5 leaked or spilled, what would the impacts be to the region? So, where would spills go and things like that? We use the most high tech sort of hydrologic studies and put that information into the state processes. So, at that time, as you mentioned earlier, I was serving on the Pipeline Safety Advisory Board of Governor Snyder, and it was critical to get high quality information from the top-notch hydrologists to know exactly what would happen if Line 5 had a leak. And so, to me, this partnership between good quality information and good decision-making is exactly the role for the U of M Water Center, not just on Line 5, but on issues of the Great Lakes and water across the board.
David Fair: As you draft the document on the history of Line 5, how do you intend to use that historical evaluation in moving forward with overall pipeline safety policy?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah. I'm drafting this really for two reasons. One, from a teaching perspective, so I teach water policy and Great Lakes issues. And you just won't find a deeper or more interesting case study than Line 5: the twist and turns, the fact that this began as the focal point of a single advocate, Beth Wallace, who started pointing out some of the potential issues with Line 5, and it's blossomed into something. For better or worse, it's an issue of international diplomacy and consequences at the highest level. So, I just thought that was something that should be tracked and documented. And so, I'm writing that up for a teaching role. And then, the other thing is what does it tell us about other issues for the Great Lakes and beyond. The issues that we should that we work on here really complex. The interplay of climate issues, water issues, indigenous rights, states' rights, et cetera--that's the world that we live in here, because every one of these issues we work on for the Great Lakes have those layers of complexity. So, I'm trying to draw out what we can learn from Line 5 in this kind of living, breathing case study that seems to have a new twist and turn every couple of weeks.
David Fair: Once again, our First Friday Focus on the Environment conversation with Mike Shriberg continues. He is director of the U of M Water Center, and the other voice you hear is that of my First Friday co-host, Lisa Wozniak.
Lisa Wozniak: As you have alluded to, Mike, the Line 5 issue is part of a broader energy issue or water issue. President Trump has issued several executive orders meant to boost oil and gas drilling domestically, including an order declaring a "energy emergency" and giving the green light for federal agencies to skip steps on their way to approve projects. That actually led the Army Corps of Engineers to expedite permit approval for Line 5. So, I'm wondering. What are other potential impacts on the Great Lakes and the environment from the Trump energy and water policies?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah. So, we're seeing a dismantling of some of our core environmental protections. I mean, Line 5, again, is sort of a case study in this. What we saw from the Trump Administration is essentially a sped-up permit for the Line 5 tunnel. It's not the last word on it, but it's the federal last word on it. And we're going to see more things like this coming down the pike. What I think is it makes it even more important for all of us to stay vigilant about water protections. There's a lot that can be done on the local level, on the state level, as we're seeing federal retrenchment. And we're see federal rollbacks of water and energy policies. So, we're going to see more impacts like this, unfortunately. And Line 5 is kind of on the cutting edge of it.
David Fair: When it comes to water issues, Mike, we have PFAS contamination, microplastics, agricultural runoff. There are water shortages in parts of the country. Even some of the aquifers in Michigan have run dry. The federal administration is cutting EPA jobs, reducing funding and forcing cutbacks in organizations, like FEMA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. Will all of this impact the mission of the U of M Water Center and the environmental research that goes on at the U of M?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: I mean, I'm going to give you a vague answer, which is yes and no, because federal administrations come and go, and things have happened in that space. But I think the key thing is the water resources enjoy extraordinary public support. You know, in this region, the Great Lakes, they're not just an environmental issue. They're a cultural issue. And I don't mean to minimize. I think you gave a good list of some of the problems that are going on, but we actually see some bright spots. For example, President Trump signed a presidential memorandum that allowed the Asian carp bearer, the invasive carp bearer, to go forward and got one praise from Democratic governors, Governor Whitmer and Governor Pritzker. And that single thing does not at all wipe out the bad things that are happening on the waterfront, but it does show there are pathways forward for water protection that can bring people together. And I think that's a space that the Water Center plays, which is bring people together, being solution-oriented and looking beyond the immediate politics to what's in the best interest of our resources in our region. And even in tough times right now, we're seeing a glimmer of hopes on things like the Brandon Road Lock and Dam, which is the basic carp bearer I was referring to.
David Fair: Well, I always love ending on a positive note, and you've certainly provided one! Thank you for the time and conversation, Mike! And best of luck in your new position!
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Thank you! And Happy Fourth of July to everybody!
David Fair: That is Mike Shriberg, Associate Professor at the University of Michigan School for Environment and Sustainability and, as of June 1st, new director of the U of M Water Center. For more information on Mike, the Water Center and Line 5, pay a visit to our website at WEMU.org. And, Lisa, once again, Happy Fourth! And I look forward to our next conversation in August!
Lisa Wozniak: Happy Fourth to you and to Mike and to all who are listening! I look forward to our next conversation!
David Fair: Lisa Wozniak is Executive Director of the Michigan League of Conservation Voters and, on the first Friday of each month, co-host of this conversation we call First Friday Focus on the Environment. I'm David Fair, and most of all, thanks to you for joining us today! Have a Happy Fourth! And keep it dialed in right here to your community NPR station, 89.1 WEMU-FM Ypsilanti!
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