ABOUT DR. MIKE SHRIBERG:
Mike Shriberg, Ph.D., is a Director of the University of Michigan Water Center and a Professor of Practice & Engagement in the School for Environment & Sustainability (SEAS).His work focuses on Great Lakes water policy and institutions, local and state energy policy, and sustainability leadership. Prior to coming to U-M, he was the Great Lakes regional executive director at the National Wildlife Federation. Prior to the National Wildlife Federation, he served as the education director at the Graham Sustainability Institute. Previously, Shriberg was the policy director at the Ecology Center and the director of Environment Michigan. Shriberg’s academic background includes a B.S. in Biology & Society (with honors & distinction) from Cornell University’s College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, an MS and Ph.D. in Resource Policy & Behavior from SEAS (as an Erb Institute Doctoral Fellow), and a nonprofit leadership certificate from Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management.
ABOUT REBEKAH WARREN:
Rebekah Warren is the host of Issues of the Environment and First Friday Focus on the Environment on WEMU. She is a longtime Michigan environmental and public policy leader and the President and CEO of Adaptive Strategics, LLC, where she focuses on practical solutions to complex challenges at the intersection of communities, government, and the environment.
Rebekah previously served in the Michigan Legislature for 14 years, representing Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti and broader Washtenaw County in both the House of Representatives and the Senate. In the House, she chaired the Great Lakes and Environment Committee and helped lead bipartisan efforts to pass landmark water protection legislation implementing the Great Lakes Compact—widely recognized as one of the most significant freshwater protection laws. In the Senate, she served as Vice Chair and Ranking Member of the Natural Resources, Environment and Great Lakes Committee and worked extensively on issues including water quality, invasive species, renewable energy, land use, and recycling policy.
ABOUT LISA WOZNIAK:
Lisa’s career spans over two decades of environmental and conservation advocacy in the political arena. She is a nationally- recognized expert in non-profit growth and management and a leader in Great Lakes protections. Lisa is a three-time graduate from the University of Michigan, with a bachelor's degree and two ensuing master's degrees in social work and Education.
Lisa serves a co-host and content partner in 89.1 WEMU's '1st Friday Focus on the Environment.'
RESOURCES:
Michigan League of Conservation Voters
University of Michigan School for Environment and Sustainability
Line 5 and the Great Lakes Tunnel
Michigan Supreme Court Line 5 Case: Decided July 31, 2026
Great Lakes Restoration Initiative
TRANSCRIPTION:
Rebekah Warren: This is 89.1 WEMU, and welcome to our First Friday Focus on the Environment. The first Friday of every month, we convene to explore environmental issues vital to the health of our air, land, and water in Michigan. And all of that, of course, plays into the well-being and quality of life that we lead here in the Great Lakes State. I'm Rebekah Warren, and my co-host for this monthly conversation series is Lisa Wozniak, President and CEO of the Michigan League of Conservation Voters. Lisa, today we're going to take a closer look at some of the biggest challenges facing the Great Lakes, from the future of Line 5 to climate change and the resources available to protect our state. And to help us make sense of all of it, we've invited someone who's spent decades working on these issues.
Lisa Wozniak: That's right, Rebekah! Our guest today has worked on Great Lakes issues from both the advocacy and research sides, giving him a very unique perspective on where we are and where we're headed. Mike Shriberg is the Executive Director of the University of Michigan Water Center and, before that, served as Regional Executive Director of the National Wildlife Federation's Great Lakes Regional Center. Mike, thank you so much for joining us today!
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Thanks so much for having me!
Lisa Wozniak: Let's start with the issue that's been at the center of so much attention in Michigan in the last many weeks: Line 5. So, for someone who hasn't been following this debate closely, I'm going to ask you a big question, which I hope you can summarize fairly quickly. But what is Line 5? Why is the crossing beneath the Straits of Mackinac so controversial? And how did we get to where we are today?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Okay. So, we have a two-hour show, right? (laughs) I mean, Line 5 is the oil pipeline from Enbridge Energy that takes tar sands oil from Canada and brings it through the Great Lakes, through Michigan, and to refineries largely in Canada. It's been the source of great controversy really in two key points. One is its crossing in the Straits of Mackinac, where it sits along the bottom of the straits, and then in the Bad River Band where it crosses a reservation in Wisconsin along the shores of Lake Superior. So, it's been a source of controversy now for over about 15 years.
Lisa Wozniak: One of the things that you didn't mention, but I know that we have some questions about is the potential for a rupture in the Straits and a potential catastrophic scenario. Can you talk a little bit about that because Enbridge has proposed a solution to move the pipeline into a tunnel beneath the lakebed? And what are the biggest questions that still need to be about this project?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah, I mean a rupture in the Straits of Mackinac would be catastrophic at any level you look at it. One way I like to think about this is the flow in the Straits of Mackinac, it's ten times the flow of Niagara Falls, except that sometimes it's flowing towards Lake Michigan, sometimes Lake Huron, and the top, middle, and bottom currents can flow differently. That was research done by the University of Michigan Water Center years ago. And so, if there is an oil spill in that area, there are hundreds of miles of shoreline and thousands of miles of water that would be contaminated. And that's just talking about it from the direct ecological side. The cultural value, the value for tourism, and the inherent value of those waters is extraordinarily high. In many ways, that's the heart of the Great Lakes region. So, that's where a lot of the controversy is focused because the pipeline sits largely just....well, it splits in the dual pipelines there, and it's sitting right in that water. It's been hit by anchors multiple times that we know about. And so, the risks are tremendous, and that's what's driving a whole range of solutions from the Governor trying to shut down that existing pipeline to Enbridge trying to put it into a tunnel beneath the Straits of Mackinac.
Rebekah Warren: Well, recently, there have been several steps taken toward permitting the tunnel project. Can you help us understand what exactly has been approved and what happens next?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah. So, I think the biggest thing to know is that the Great Lakes tunnel proposal has been stopped by the Michigan Supreme Court. It had received permits from the Michigan Public Service Commission, but that has been overturned and is now back to the Public Service Commission. Essentially, the Michigan Supreme Court said that the Public Services Commission was thinking too narrowly about environmental impacts and things. And it's really a landmark decision, not just for Line 5, but for other environmental issues and for the Michigan Environmental Protection Act. Prior to that, it seemed like it might be on more of a glide path because the Governor had given it a permit and more specifically EGLE, the environmental agency, to advance the tunnel. So, it's kind of been this back-and-forth. There are multiple permits still needed for the tunnel. It's not going to start anytime soon. And then, that earth-shaking decision by the Michigan Supreme Court puts the tunnel almost back to square one. We don't expect that any construction to start any time in the near future. And importantly, it pushes it beyond the term of Governor Whitmer and Michigan Attorney General Nessel.
Rebekah Warren: WEMU's First Friday Focus on the Environment continues with Dr. Mike Shriberg, Executive Director of the University of Michigan Water Center. I'm Rebekah Warren, here with my First Friday partner, President and CEO of the Michigan League of Conservation Voters, Lisa Wozniak.
Lisa Wozniak: Tribal nations have played a central role in the debate over Line 5, and there are ongoing legal challenges related to this issue on their behalf. What are the key legal and tribal issues that listeners should understand as we look at what happens next, Mike?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah. I think that the easiest way to start to explain this is a core issue of tribal sovereignty. If we go over to Wisconsin and we look at the Bad River Band, that is where Line 5 goes right through the reservation. And the Bad River Band has terminated the easement. So, in other words, they have said Line 5 needs to be off of our land. Enbridge has essentially refused, and that has been playing out in the courts. Now, the courts have ruled in favor of the Bad River Band, saying that they had the legal right to get Line 5 off their land, except the courts keep saying, 'But we'll give Enbridge more time to route it around the Bad River." So, similar to the Great Lakes Tunnel, what Enbridge was trying to do is route it around the Bad River Band's reservation, but actually keep it within the watershed, and there are legal battles playing out there. Here in Michigan, it's more about the treaty-enabled fishing rights and the sovereignty of the indigenous nations to have access to the Great Lakes. And so, this is viewed by indigenous nations as a core threat to their sovereignty, and many of the court cases have been around that. And, in fact, the Michigan Supreme Court case referenced specifically the sovereignty of tribal nations, and they were the lead in the challenge. This Line 5, overall, it's important for its own sake, but it is a battle about the future of tribal sovereignty. It's about the future of states' rights because Enbridge has claimed that Michigan does not have the right to protect the waters of Michigan in the Great Lakes. And so, it's taken on this bigger importance. And, of course, it's about climate change as well. And the Michigan Supreme Court ruling that just came out essentially says the Michigan Public Service Commission has to look at climate change. It has to look at the bigger impacts of Line 5. So, what started as, I would say, a local, but important battle now has national and international impacts and impacts on the sovereign nations here as well
Rebekah Warren: And, Mike, as we mentioned in the intro, the pipeline is not the only current challenge that the Great Lakes region is facing, and opportunities, sometimes, don't seem as prevalent as the challenges. But you've done a lot of research looking at a host of other Great Lakes issues, including the Great Lake Restoration Initiative and why this basin-wide initiative has maintained bipartisan support for so long. What can GLRI teach us about building durable environmental policy in a very particularly politically divided country?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah. Well, the Great Lakes are the great uniters. We see support for the Great Lakes across every demographic you can think of. And that's particularly true in Michigan, but it's true across the region. So, the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative, which is the federal initiative to clean up the Great Lakes, enjoys incredible support from really any politician that you can you can think of. And it's an example. And we just put out some research on this that shows when you start with what's really a core value, which was the Great Lakes, and you strategically enact that, that means bringing the right people at the right time and table doing the strong communications. Restoration wins. You know, one thing that I like to remind people is that conservation issues are extraordinarily popular with the U.S. public. It doesn't appear that way sometimes when we've been facing rollbacks from the federal administration and many battles in that way. But when you step back and you look at it, the popular support for conservation remains. It's a matter of enacting that. And the Great Lakes offers special opportunities for that because the Great Lakes aren't just a resource, they're a culture, they're of value, and they're the uniting force.
Lisa Wozniak: So, Mike, as you note, there is significant uncertainty around federal funding for Great Lakes research and programs, as well as their major changes at agencies like the EPA and NOAA. So, from your perspective, what changes are most consequential for the Great Lakes? And what are the one or two developments related to our beautiful lakes that we should be watching most closely over the next, say, six months?
Dr. Mike Shriberg: Yeah. I mean, on the funding front, the bottom line is federal funding has declined for the Great Lakes, and we're losing many of the staff at federal agencies that are responsible for things like monitoring for harmful algal blooms like Lake Erie that happens each summer, as well as Saginaw Bay and other areas. We're losing funding for people to look at ice cover and the safety of things that goes along with that that help us look out for flooding. So, this is coming at a time when the impacts of climate change are increasing. Anyone who's been around Michigan this summer has seen this. We've had flooding. We've had extreme heat. We'd had smoke. We've had tornado warnings. We've had all the climate impacts that you can think of concentrated just in July, for God's sakes. And so, those impacts will be accelerating, and I'll be looking out for how our federal agencies can respond with the decreased staff that they have right now. I mean, we're seeing the impacts right now on our lakes and on our communities, right as the federal resources are declining. Now, just to match that up with what I was saying before, but support for protecting the Great Lakes remains extraordinarily high. So, there's this tension between what's happening at the federal level and what the Great Lakes citizens want. And I'll be looking for how that plays out over the next six months or over the next year, as these impacts from climate change become more and more apparent.
Rebekah Warren: Thank you so much, Mike, for being with us today! That was Dr. Mike Shriberg, Executive Director of the University of Michigan Water Center and our guest on First Friday Focus on the Environment. My co-host is the President and CEO of the Michigan League of Conservation Voters, Lisa Wozniak. Lisa, as always, I appreciate you and look forward to our next conversation! I'm Rebekah Warren, and this is your community NPR station, 89.1 WEMU Ypsilanti.
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