RESOURCES:
Ari Shapiro says farewell to NPR
TRANSCRIPTION:
Caroline MacGregor: This is 89.1 WEMU. I'm Caroline MacGregor, your host of our local All Things Considered program. And today, my guest is the host of NPR's flagship program, All Things Considered, Ari Shapiro. It's great to have you! Thank you for joining us today!
Ari Shapiro: Hi, Caroline! Same to you! Thanks for your interest!
Caroline MacGregor: You know, I know we're here to discuss the importance of community fundraising, given all that's happened in public media. But recently, it was announced that after 10 years of hosting All Things Considered and a 25-year career with NPR, you're actually stepping away at the end of September. This is sad!
Ari Shapiro: True! It is a sad moment, but it's also really been lovely to hear from so many listeners who I have felt this connection with even never having met them because radio is such an intimate medium, you know? And it's been such a privilege to spend my entire career at NPR. I always thought that hosting All Things Considered would be a 10-year project. And so, after a decade, I've decided to step away, but I decided this a long time ago. And so, even though it comes at a challenging time for public media, the two are unrelated. And I'm still going to be a listener and a supporter and encourage people to stand behind public radio and step up and fill in these gaps that are going to be left behind by the shuttering of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which has been such an important foundation for so long.
Caroline MacGregor: Yes, absolutely! Well, you've sort of answered the one question I had, which, of course, was why are you stepping away, or at least you made the decision prior to the federal funding cuts. But what is next for you? I have to ask.
Ari Shapiro: Yeah. I, over the years that I've been hosting All Things Considered, have done a lot of other things too. So, I wrote a memoir called "The Best Strangers in the World." I hosted a reality competition show on Netflix called "The Mole." I made a 12-part course for Wondrium, the teaching platform about storytelling. And then I tour with a band called Pink Martini, and I have a show with the actor Alan Cumming and a solo show of my own. I've done all of those things sort of around the periphery while also hosting All things Considered. And I plan to keep wearing many hats and doing lots of different things. And I like doing journalism while also doing performance and making audio narratives while also making something in video and in text. And so, I hope to continue to have my fingers in a lot of different pots going forward.
Caroline MacGregor: How do you get time for all those pots though?
Ari Shapiro: Well, with Pink Martini, I've been touring with that band the longest of all the various things that I've described. And that's something that I always done on my vacation time. I mean, there's sort of a different answer for every one of these. With the book, it was something that I wrote during the pandemic when we were all locked down at home and had no extracurricular activities at all.
Caroline MacGregor: Right.
Ari Shapiro: With "The Mole," it a six-week filming period when I took an unpaid leave of absence from All Things Considered a couple of years ago and was very grateful to NPR for giving me that opportunity. So, I've just kind of squeezed things in around the periphery.
Caroline MacGregor: I see. Well, it is very sad to see you go, but it's understandable that you want to pursue your many other talents. And to return to the focus for today's interview with you, I know that you are passionate about supporting NPR programming. And of course, after the Rescissions Act, which stripped basically $1 billion in previously approved funding for public media, we are all quite concerned about the future. Efforts continue to find alternative funding sources. And while we receive gifts--you know, we've actually had quite a few gifts rolling in--there's no guarantees for the future. And then, of course, we have the fundraiser that's incredibly important for WEMU, as well as all the NPR affiliates. Given that you're passionate about the mission of public radio, what message do you have for WEMU and our listeners at this critical time?
Ari Shapiro: Well, I think the future of public radio is in our hands more than it ever has been. Public radio has always been listener supported. Now, it needs more listener support. And so, whether stations like WEMU continue to exist or not will depend on whether people step up and donate or not. And in a way, that's scary. And in a way, that's kind of wonderful because there are so many problems that we can't solve. And there's so many things that seem broken that feel impossible to fix. This is a problem with a very straightforward solution, which is if you want to make sure that public radio continues, if you want to make sure that your station exists, if you want to know that this information and these voices will be here for you, you know what you have to do. It's very simple and straightforward. And it doesn't have to be a lot of money, although a lot money is great. But any amount of money is valuable. And if everybody steps up and pitches in, then public radio will have a rich future. I believe that public radio is not going to go away. I don't think listeners would allow it to go away, but the future is not guaranteed either.
Caroline MacGregor: If you're just tuning in, my guest today is Ari Shapiro, co-host of All Things Considered for NPR. And this is a sad day. He's decided to step away from the host chair and daily news coverage at NPR. We're discussing his goals for the future, as well as community fundraising for public media in light of federal funding cuts. What do you think of philanthropy efforts to provide emergency funds to stabilize stations?
Ari Shapiro: I'm pro.
Caroline MacGregor: What was that?
Ari Shapiro: I said I'm pro!
Caroline MacGregor: Oh yeah.
Ari Shapiro: I think anyone who wants to give money to public radio is a thumbs-up in my book. It's not a long-term solution. There's obviously an acute crisis right now, but that funding is not likely to come back in a few months or years. We don't know what Congress may or may not do, but we certainly can't count on it coming back. And so, an infusion of life-saving money can keep the patient alive. But then, you have years more of life to live, hopefully, to use a really awkward metaphor.
Caroline MacGregor: Right. So, you've no doubt heard about the Knight Foundation and other organizations, which are hoping to put about $50 million, I believe, together to stabilize stations most at risk. Those include rural stations or in Alaska, et cetera. Do you see that, though, building into something that could be quite sustainable in the future, given what we've just talked about?
Ari Shapiro: My area of expertise is not the funding models and the structures of the philanthropic versus the listener support versus whatever other revenue streams might be out there. So, I don't know whether the money that big philanthropic organizations can provide is enough to staunch the bleeding or whatever metaphor you want to use. I do know that listener support will never stop being needed and will never start being vital. It's not just a way of saying, "I have a stake in this and I care about this," although it's that, too. It's also an essential leg of the stool for how this thing stands up.
Caroline MacGregor: Do you think that people should keep at their congressmen, the politicians, keep asking them to consider public media in the future, even though we've seen what's happened recently with the cuts?
Ari Shapiro: I think people should be active participants in democracy. And that means not just voting on Election Day. That means keeping in touch with your elected representatives and making sure that they are accountable to you and your community and your interests, whatever that might be. And that includes public radio.
Caroline MacGregor: What would you say to our listeners here at WEMU as far as helping to motivate people to stand behind us and public media here in Washtenaw County?
Ari Shapiro: Well, there are a few things I would say. One is that when you look broadly at the journalism landscape right now, there are fewer full-time reporters holding people accountable than ever before. And in many communities, the public radio station reporter is the only person covering the mayor's office or the city council or the Governor's office. If you want a democracy where people are held accountable, if you want democracy where citizens are informed, if you want a democracy that isn't just a shouting match of us versus them, who are your enemies and who are allies, if you want to be informed, then you need to support public radio just as one pillar that is still standing in a journalism landscape that has been decimated. The other thing I would say is that so many different news organizations are accountable to shareholders or to corporate owners. Public radio never has been. And now, more than ever, we are only accountable to our audience, to our listeners we serve. And the public has a role to play in that, and that's donating. And so, if you want public radio to exist in the future, then it's important to give.
Caroline MacGregor: What do you say to critics of public radio who say that we have been biased? That was obviously the big message that they were trying to get across.
Ari Shapiro: I think there is a false narrative that if somebody isn't arguing your point of view, then they have the opposite point of view. When in fact, unbiased journalism is a real thing that exists. Now everybody's human. Everybody's fallible. Everyone makes mistakes.
Caroline MacGregor: Right.
Ari Shapiro: At NPR, we correct those mistakes on the air or on the website when we make them. But ultimately, we are trying to reflect the full range of human experience and perspectives, including ones that any listener is going to disagree with. So, I think anybody of any political persuasion could listen to hours of public radio and find things they disagree with, I hope they do. Our role is not to tell you that you're right about what you already think. Our role is not to reaffirm your preexisting beliefs. There are plenty of people out there who will do that for you if that's what you're looking for. Our role is to expose you to ideas that you might not agree with, that you may not be comfortable with, that you maybe not be familiar with, and that's part of the value that public radio brings. That's part our reason for existing.
Caroline MacGregor: Well, thank you so much, Ari! It's been wonderful to talk with you today! I know our listeners will be, of course, very sad to hear that you're stepping down, but it sounds like you've got quite a bright future ahead of you.
Ari Shapiro: Thank you so much, Caroline! It's been great talking with you!
Caroline MacGregor: And this is 89.1 WEMU-FM Ypsilanti, your community NPR station. Broadcasting from the campus of Eastern Michigan University. For information, news, and ways to donate, visit WEMU.org.
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