RESOURCES:
National Law Enforcement Museum
Final Report of the President's Task Force on 21st Century Policing
TRANSCRIPTION:
Caroline MacGregor: This is 89.1 WEMU, and today, as part of Black History Month, we are talking to Ann Arbor Chief of Police, Andre Anderson. Chief Anderson previously served as the Executive Assistant Police Chief with the Tempe Police Department in Arizona, and he has served in law enforcement for more than 34 years. He's also held numerous leadership roles during that time. Welcome, Chief Anderson! It's very good of you to take time out of your busy schedule to be here today!
Andre Anderson: Thank you so much! I really appreciate this opportunity!
Caroline MacGregor: Last year, you were sworn into your position as Police Chief of Ann Arbor in February of 2024. At the time, local officials, including City Administrator Milton Dohoney Jr. lauded you for having served in the fire. And the other officials were referring to the roles you served in Missouri and Rochester, New York, where you were called in to help with some investigations. Tell me just a little bit about these roles, if you would.
Andre Anderson: Well, I think what's important about these roles is that, in both Rochester as well as Ferguson, we were facing some significant turmoil with respect to trust the policing and incidents that occurred that were actually observed throughout the nation as pretty devastating issues in our country. You know, in Rochester, it was the death of Daniel Prude. And then, in Ferguson, it was the death of Mike Brown Jr. And then, there were significant protests as a result of both of those incidents. I was actually called there primarily because of the relationship that I had with community policing, working in communities of color, being a person of color and also there to assist with ensuring that we can ease some of the tension while providing the expertise that allow for us to have a response to protest that didn't denote a highly military-type of style, but one that embraced the community while also allowing and accepting individuals to embrace their freedom of speech while also getting our police officers to understand how important that was as well. And so, I think we were relatively successful in those endeavors. In each incident, the inclusion, with respect to the protests and things that we put in place, was no police officers injured, no community members injured, no damage to property, just a lot of success in terms of when I got there and put the plans together to address some of the protests and that was done primarily with a really respectful exchange with the community that helped to really resolve issues. And that set the stage for us to start dealing with the reform that was needed in order to address the culture of policing.
Caroline MacGregor: Right. And I believe in Missouri, it was determined, and you were instrumental in this, that the police department was frequently violating the rights of Black residents, and the case obviously received national attention. You were, in fact, inducted into the National Law Enforcement Museum in Washington D.C. following this.
Andre Anderson: That is correct. You know, in our field, obviously there's a great deal of police officers that serve with distinction and nobility. But unfortunately, there are these instances, and Ferguson was an example of where the system in the culture did not allow for the community to feel safe and trust the police department. And when that occurs, there is a need for us to re-instill and affirm a sense of justice. As we talk about this time, it's Black History Month and we talk about Martin Luther King. Martin Luther king was coined as saying that, "True peace is not merely the absence of tension. It is the presence of justice." And in allowing for police officers, myself included, to understand that there is tension in the community. The tension, oftentimes, is welcome and warranted because of the problems, but we do have to have the presence of justice and being in a position to help facilitate that is what I've always been about and I believe many police professionals are about. And in fact, I think you interviewed Council Member Harrison, who is really a trooper for justice as she goes about doing things here in Ann Arbor as a city council leader here, too. So, we get to see what she has and what she brings to the table and also how her passion helps to modify culture.
Caroline MacGregor: It's funny you mentioned that I was actually just about to segue into that. You know, your experiences in Ferguson and Rochester, how did they help you assimilate into your current role in Ann Arbor, where, obviously, there has been a history of racial injustice, whether it be people accused wrongly of crimes or traffic stops in which Black people have been unfairly targeted. And I know this is where Council Member Cynthia Harrison has been instrumental in helping address this with help from your department.
Andre Anderson: Yes. The reality is that, in Ferguson, right outside of that St. Louis area and as you got closer to the Ferguson area, you have a community that has more than 60 different municipalities in a small geographic area. And so, in Ferguson, there was no secret that making traffic stops was used as a sense of revenue for that small city. And when that was done, that community, which is about 70% Black in Ferguson, they became the revenue, quite frankly, for the city in many different ways, primarily because of a number of these stops. And when you have a number of jurisdictions that are making these minor traffic stops that are occurring and many times being used to generate revenue, it also creates a situation where there's a repetitious cycle of individuals being arrested and going in and out of the criminal justice system, which is really a horrible situation. And so, here in Ann Arbor, what our council member did was ask the police department and many others to take a critical look at the number of people that were stopped from minor traffic infractions, while also ensuring that we were making public safety stops to keep the community safe. And sometimes, I don't think people realize that the approach that we have here in Ann Arbor and the approach that the City Council had was twofold. It was to stop some of the smaller types of stops in terms of non-moving violations and equipment violations, for lack of a better term, while also ensuring that we're doing what we could in order to slow people down that are speeding or driving erratically to keep that from occurring through traffic safety as well, so that people can transition to and from and around the City of Ann Arbor safely. That's what the entire plan is intended to do, and I think it's worked very well since we've actually put our true policies in place in May of last year.
Caroline MacGregor: And I know that you have stated in the past that the police department's relationship with city leaders and the community is vital in helping achieve the goal of eliminating racial injustice. Tell me a little bit about it. You mentioned Cynthia Harrison, but the city, it seems like they have been really standing behind you, and that there are big strides being made, although we are still seeing some incidents like Blair Shelton, who was arrested or detained briefly again last year, and he was the man who was wrongly identified as being a serial rapist years ago. His DNA evidence was collected, and he fought for years to have that DNA released. You know, there are still some things happening like everywhere, but tell me a little bit again, if you would, about the importance of the community and city leaders in helping to achieve this goal of eliminating racial injustice.
Andre Anderson: You know, here in Ann Arbor, we're very fortunate because, quite frankly, I wouldn't be here if we didn't have the type of council that we have from the mayor to each of the city council members that I've had an opportunity to speak to. They all are in one accord with respect to how we treat people in the community and be equitable. And that's a fantastic place to work when you know that you have a leadership team that knows how critical it is for the police department to engage in professional practices. But ultimately, it really starts with our city administrator. We have one of the better city administrators across the country in Milton Dohoney. And so, you have that whole continuity of leadership that really speaks specifically to what we as a police department should be doing to ensure that we do everything we can to provide equity, but also being police officers and addressing safety. Now, what I will tell you is that when we started talking about some of the issues related to the driving equality ordinance, and I started speaking to our new leadership here, what I found is that the employees needed to understand what the impact was, why there were concerns, and how we would go about addressing them. And there's no way you can get where we are. I mean, it's been since, I believe, May, there has been zero stops from equipment violations, which is kind of unheard of, but being done by the men and women of this police department because they found a way to see how important it is for us to ensure that we're not creating that type of harm while also addressing other types of stops for public safety reasons. So, I think when I look at the quality of leaders and police officers we have in this department, no one is perfect. But again, we have a team that is committed to ensuring that we do everything we can while still being police officers in enforcing the law to ensure that we're not causing anything harm. That's where I see our agency moving, and there's evidence of that as I'm here as a chief.
Caroline MacGregor: If you're just joining us, my guest today is Ann Arbor Police Chief Andre Anderson. And we are talking about community policing among many other subjects. With regard to your leadership style, which is obviously having an impact and the importance you place on community policing, you've traveled abroad, even to help organizations learn more about the concepts of community policing. You serve as special assistant to the National President of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, otherwise known as NOBLE. And you're tasked there with engaging in national community dialog, working with others to come up with ways to build trust and create legitimacy from lessons learned from, I believe, the President's Task Force on 21st century policing. One of the things I wanted to ask you about, in the time that we have left, is, as you know, ICE has been very unpopular in the local community. There've been several immigrants picked up. Their tactics have outraged many people, not just here in Ann Arbor, but across the country. Minnesota, of course, there have been deaths as a result, families torn apart. A resolution was recently passed by the City of Ann Arbor, basically forbidding ICE to step foot on city property. Tell me a little bit about how your department will handle incidents moving forward from this date if ICE does attempt to step foot on city property or places where the city has deemed that they are not allowed to through this resolution.
Andre Anderson: As it stands right now, I'm finalizing our process in terms of how the police department would actually respond to those types of concerns. So, at this point, I am unable to provide you a specific answer, because I have some information with our attorneys. But what I can tell you is that we're doing a number of things here in Ann Arbor. One thing is we're separating ourselves in terms of ensuring that instead of having police on our uniforms or vests that people see on a regular basis, we're changing it to say "Ann Arbor Police," so there's a clear distinction between the Ann Arbor Police Department and other agencies. So, there are a number of things that we'll be doing to ensure that we provide a sense of stability to our community members, so that they understand that there's a difference. And that they are not hopeless. There are things that can be done. You can report incidents that occur to the Attprney General's office. They have a form that allows for you to provide details with respect to what you see. Our police officers can actively take information and reports that they see or find any law enforcement agency doing anything wrong. We will obviously provide that to the appropriate personnel for it to be investigated. There are things that we are working on that we will do. And obviously with any law enforcement agency, we have an obligation and duty to intervene, but we can not interfere with an investigation. And so, those are very challenging differences. But the reality is is that we are here for our community. We will be putting out more information in terms of how we will be responding. But we support the resolution. We understand the nuances of it. Obviously, there may be some challenges with respect to how we go about enforcing, but we will do our due diligence in order to ensure that we follow what we're being asked to do with the resolution. But we would do that in a way that's judicious. So, that's what Ann Arbor Police Department will be doing when we have more information with respect to how you respond after I have our attorneys take a look at what our response in me also making a decision on the types of procedures will have in place. So, we're doing it as we speak now.
Caroline MacGregor: Okay. Yeah, thank you for that. I know that Mayor Taylor made it clear that the city will not break the law, but they certainly will not assist ICE. And we'll wait to see what happens legally speaking with what you just referred to. In closing, we are clearly living in a time when law enforcement agencies are under more intense scrutiny than ever. Is there anything that you would like the public to know? I mean, you've touched on quite a bit of trust is obviously the keyword. But with some of the other issues that have happened in Washtenaw County, with the Washtenaw County Sheriff's Office, other agencies, Ypsilanti Police Department, with regard to some recent happenings. The standoff at a house in Ypsilianti, a man was shot and killed during a chase. How closely do you work with the Washtenaw County Sheriff's Office and Sheriff Alyshia Dyer and anything that you would like to convey to the public about how the public's perception of police can be improved in light of some of these unfortunate incidents and realizing at the same time that most police officers are wanting to do the right thing, but there are these incidents that really dent trust in the community?
Andre Anderson: Well, let me speak specifically about the current state that we have. I often remind people. Me being a police chief and being a Black police chief and recognizing that some of these concerns have an impact on many of the immigrants that are here. And we know some facts about immigrants. Some studies show that more than 12 million immigrants entered the golden door of Ellis Island between 1892 and 1954. And it is believed that there's an estimated 40% of those Americans that are still here that can be traced to that 27-acre island. So, what does that mean is that we all have a nexus to being immigrants. Now being a Black man in this country is evident that my ancestors were involuntary immigrants. But nonetheless, we are all here. There are many immigrants here, and we're here for the right reasons. We're here to be part of the great fabric of this country in order for us to all live an American dream. And that's what's important. We remember. And that's what we're fighting for with the police. We're fighting to ensure that everyone has a just and right to have equality here. Now, I recognize that there is a time, as such as these days, where there isn't a great deal of trust for law enforcement. But we want to earn your trust. We want to demonstrate that we are here for the community members. And so, it is something that requires a consistent, ongoing frequency of interaction with the community, where they see the good in the police officers they come into contact with. And so, those are the concerns that we're seeing. We hope we can allay some of these concerns by our actions. But it's going to take some time, and we're hoping that the community will walk with us and we walk with them as we navigate through these tough times. And that the entire law enforcement field can make adjustments because none of us are perfect. And that means that doesn't mean I'm making any excuses for any law enforcement agency, including my own. What it means is that we have to continue to move the bar, continue to have a high bar and set a standard where we develop and continue to embrace community policing. Lastly, what I would say about our mayor is our mayor has been a true trooper, as I indicated with our council member, with respect to moving the resolution forward, talking, speaking life into how we need to treat everyone in our community. He does that not only when he's out and about, but in the meetings that I see him at when he speaking to the police leadership as well. And we really respect that in the type of leadership we have here. We know there are many other leaders that are in a number of different spaces that also have the same message. So, as long as we in government can galvanize the right response to the people in the community, I believe that we can make huge adjustments in the near future. And that's what we're faced with: changing the scope of law enforcement, government and all, with so many great people in this field, that we believe that we have the right people in the right place to fight against those that are causing harm. That's what I believe as a police chief, and many police chiefs believe the same thing.
Caroline MacGregor: Chief Anderson, thank you very much for joining us today! I know you've got a super busy schedule, and I really appreciate your time here today.
Andre Anderson: You're welcome! And thank you for the opportunity!
Caroline MacGregor: This is 89.1 WEMU FM Ypsilanti. Your community NPR station.
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