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Caroline MacGregor: This is 89.1 WEMU. I'm Caroline MacGregor. And with me today is Chelsea City Mayor Kate Henson. She's here to talk about the City of Chelsea, and, of course, the search for a new city manager following the resignation of Elle Cole. Welcome, Kate!
Kate Henson: Thanks so much for having me!
Caroline MacGregor: It's good to have you here. Now, I know that this has been, of course, in the headlines quite a bit recently, but Elle Cole became Chelsea City Manager in February after a fairly competitive search. Then on August 27th, the Chelsea City Council voted to terminate Cole for cause. And there were a lot of rumors, because there wasn't a lot of detail at the time available to the public, only that it was a confidential personnel matter. The city said it had reviewed information and consulted legal and HR professionals before making this decision. But then, in September, right before City Council meeting, Cole actually surrendered her right to a public hearing before her termination was made official, and she surprised the council with her resignation. Tell me just a little bit about the vote there, if you would.
Kate Henson: It certainly was a surprise. We were headed down a path, and the only reason we entertained the request for resignation was simply because it ended the situation. Had we declined it, she still had, I think, 10 days before we could actually schedule a public hearing. And then, we would have to find the date to have that hearing and then have the hearing, which would then result in another vote to finalize that resolution for termination. During which time, she would have been continued to be paid. So, the thought was if you accept the resignation, then the relationship is severed and we can start moving forward more quickly.
Caroline MacGregor: Now, there were two dissenting votes. Those were Sam Angus and George Merkel. Do you have any regrets regarding your vote?
Kate Henson: As far as the two council members who voted "nay" on that, the causes for termination were so egregious, we all felt that the resignation could make it look like we weren't fully in line with these, or we were fully committed to them. And so, there was a lot of back and forth. As far as regrets, I do regret voting to accept it, just on principle, because it did seem like a game at the last minute. I said it at the council meeting. She's not even there, but the things that she was doing continued to erode the trust between the council, the staff, and the citizens. And I just think that that's egregious, on top of the other things that were listed in the resolution for termination.
Caroline MacGregor: And it seems somewhat ironic because I know in the hiring of Elle Cole, she stated that one of her desires was to build trust and stability within the government of Chelsea. And yet, the complete opposite happened. The council terminated Cole for cause after identifying five reasons including dishonesty, misuse of public funds, inappropriate workplace behavior, violation of public trust and in subordination. I know some things are not open for discussion, but what can you tell us about the specific behavior that was so egregious to the City Council?
Kate Henson: Obviously, we all did have high hopes for when Elle came on. She interviewed really well. And frankly, it was my job to try to make sure that she was successful. So, we knew there would be bumps. She's a new city manager. We're a new council. And we expected problems. But as these things started to come out, we were flabbergasted. And such is the structure of our world, I had to second guess myself and really do some investigating. Because were the claims that I were hearing actually true, or was it patriarchal standards that people were judging her just because she was a woman in power? So, it was a really hard time, but I ended up having my own concerns because things would come to us in meetings, contracts would come us in meeting, and they wouldn't be correct. They wouldn't have been reviewed by the attorney. Those are big problems.
Caroline MacGregor: We talked previously a couple of weeks ago, and you had stated at the time that had Cole resigned when the council first addressed the issues, a lot of this public attention that she apparently was trying to avoid could have been avoided.
Kate Henson: 100%.
Caroline MacGregor: It sounds like the council was really shocked at the times she handed in her resignation.
Kate Henson: Yes. We didn't see that coming at all.
Caroline MacGregor: With regard to dishonesty, can you elaborate on where she was dishonest?
Kate Henson: There were times, even in public meetings, where she made statements that were just categorically false.
Caroline MacGregor: Tell me a little bit about some of the other things that you noticed that took you by surprise.
Kate Henson: Contracts that came to us that didn't have a dollar amount in them. And then, we would see them again later and then they would have a dollar amount, so there would be misinformation there. There would be contracts that came to us at the very last minute, so we didn't have time to review them properly.
Caroline MacGregor: What was Elle's response to your questions, and the council members' questions, about, "Wait a minute! Why did you not bring this to our attention before," or "Why are these contracts signed without our approval?"
Kate Henson: Initially, we thought it was just a failure on our part to set up some guidelines with her. So, for the first time it happened, I made sure to have a conversation with her and say, "From now on, if there's a contract that's due, council needs to see it at least two weeks before the deadline, so we can review it." And I got pushback on that.
Caroline MacGregor: So, let's move to misuse of public funds. That sort of plays into what you said, but is there more that the public should know about this? Because transparency is everything at this point.
Kate Henson: I would imagine that somebody, if they wanted to take the time, could FOIA all of the receipts. But as a CPA and somebody that audited municipal governments before, that person should have a very clear understanding about where the line is about what is acceptable to use public funds for and what is not. And that line was crossed multiple times.
Caroline MacGregor: I come to one of the points which, of course, as human beings, people are curious by nature, and the goal here is not to have any slander.
Kate Henson: Even the council doesn't want to speak ill of her. This was a hard thing for all of us to go through. It was actually a kick in the gut for me to see her face up on Channel Seven. So the immediate thought in my mind was like, "How is she feeling? This has to be horrible for her." But at the same time, because of the position, people feel that they get to know, and that's just not the case. As an elected official, the seven of us on council know that we are open books, and whatever happens, any kind of discretion that we have or any mistakes that we make, we have to be very public and open about them. Staff, on the other hand, is not. It doesn't help that she was much more public than previous city managers. She was out all of the time having meetings, checking in with people, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless you're failing to then do the other parts of your job. And then, that visibility also helped spur some of this need to know by other people, because, as people like to point out, we have also exited two other city managers recently, and none of them got the same kind of press.
Caroline MacGregor: But then again, moving on to your number three, one of the reasons was inappropriate workplace behavior. Insubordination is another one. Those city managers who were let go previously, was there any inappropriate workplace behavior or in subordination in their roles at the time that they were let go?
Kate Henson: I was not on council at those times, but I do know that one was resigned, and he took the opportunity to, instead of being terminated, left on his own. And the other one quit.
Caroline MacGregor: Why did he quit?
Kate Henson: Being a city manager is a very hard job. It can get overwhelming, and I think that was part of his reasons for leaving.
Caroline MacGregor: Yeah, I believe the term "burnout" was used.
Kate Henson: Yes. One of the things that we took from some of those previous experiences, we knew that it was going to be important to have support set up, mentorship opportunities for Elle because she was new. We made it a point to have lots of interaction with the staff during the interview process because we wanted their buy-in because they are the ones that have to work with the city manager every day. A lot of people don't understand the strong manager/weak mayor form of government, which is what Chelsea has. So, the title of mayor sounds cool. But, in actuality, I don't have as much power as the city manager. And you have to keep this line, this wall, up a little bit, because council is not supposed to get involved in operational things. That's the city manager's job. However, if there is a problem with the city manager, there's no....
Caroline MacGregor: There has to be oversight,
Kate Henson: Right. So, we have an HR company that we contract with, but things still weren't in place. So, if somebody had an issue with the city manager, they reported it to the city manager, and that's not helpful in any way. That's not a good process to have.
Caroline MacGregor: There's no checks and balances.
Kate Henson: Right.
Caroline MacGregor: So, back to the inappropriate workplace behavior. What can you tell me about what was going on?
Kate Henson: I will say, when I got the call and I heard that five of our valued employees were thinking about leaving because of what they were experiencing in the workplace, that was it for me. And I said that we need to move. This can't be happening. Our staff is incredible. The level of service that we offer in Chelsea, it's bar-none. And if we lose those people, we lose part of the character that makes up our city. I could only imagine what would make somebody want to leave their job after they've been there. I mean, these were long-term employees. So, I can say that it was not good, and it was not healthy.
Caroline MacGregor: Can you talk about what some of the reasons cited were from these employees, these five employees, that were considering leaving their jobs? Because that's a pretty big thing for five employees to be considering walking out the door.
Kate Henson: I can't give away too much, but I'll just say the culture. What was expected of them, what they were experiencing as far as the employer-employee relationship goes was...I'm not going to say inappropriate, but it was not okay. It was not healthy.
Caroline MacGregor: Okay. But it was called inappropriate workplace behavior as one of the listed reasons.
Kate Henson: Right, right. I think that can mean a lot of different things. I will say, when you have somebody who acts one way in public, it's hard to imagine them acting the complete opposite way in private. However, that happens, and it happened now. And so, if employees are feeling uncomfortable enough that they want to leave, you can only imagine some of the things that were happening. But we also have to consider the privacy of the employees at this point, as well as Elle.
Caroline MacGregor: Right. Well, thank you. And now that the city is tasked with finding a new city manager, I'm sure everybody wants to learn from their mistakes. But there's been a fair amount of turnover, as has been widely reported. What's the process looking like now moving forward to safeguard the city against further problems like we've seen?
Kate Henson: I wish there was a magic spell that could produce a good quality candidate that worked out, and we had no issues, but that's just not how humans work. We're running into a problem of nobody goes into municipal government as a career. The candidate pool is very limited, and you'll see oftentimes that somebody is let go from a municipality, there's an NDA. You can't talk about it. Even if you call and ask for references, they can't say anything. So, they get hired in another municipality and they just kick the can down the road.
Caroline MacGregor: What would you legally be advised, or what would HR advise you to do as a city to avoid those pitfalls?
Kate Henson: I don't know if you can, right, because, legally, the employer that let them go can't say anything. You also have instances where maybe they're still working, but the municipality would like to get rid of them, so they say wonderful things just so you will hire them, and they don't work for them anymore. So, it's tricky because our pool is small. But I think one of the things we have to do is we have look at roles and responsibilities, and we need to have clear lines of delineation between what is your responsibility and what does council expect to see to make sure that we can have oversight and make sure you're doing those things. And then, I think it's a matter of looking at candidates who have transferable skills, because this role is really about operations and making sure that the city services are properly allocated and fulfilled and our citizens are happy. It's not about constantly being out in public and having meetings because that's more of the mayor's job.
Caroline MacGregor: A question I have for you, given the enormous responsibility the city manager has. Would HR advise and would the city council agree to a city manager assistant?
Kate Henson: That's certainly something that I know that I'm open to. And everything's on the table at this point. We're discussing all options so that we can....
Caroline MacGregor: It seems like it would also provide some oversight too and additional oversight. You know, it seems like it could be another safeguard in place.
Kate Henson: That's true. Yeah. Some people are very concerned that nobody's going to want to come work in Chelsea anymore. And to those people that don't want to come to work here, I think that's great because what we are doing is showing that we are an organization who values integrity and accountability. And if that doesn't jive with you, then you don't belong in Chelsea. But I know that us sticking to our values is going to drive the right people to Chelsea--people that want to make it something special and continue our traditions.
Caroline MacGregor: This whole situation with the city manager, Elle Cole resigning, the decision, first of all, to terminate her. Then, she handed in her resignation in a surprise move right before one of your recent council meetings. This has to have had an enormous toll on you as the Mayor of Chelsea.
Kate Henson: When I walked in the day after, though, and the reception and the reactions of the staff, we knew it was the right thing to do. And frankly, I've been calm and confident since we made the decision, because they proved that it was not the best working environment and not the choice for the city manager.
Caroline MacGregor: That loss of trust must have been huge for everyone, not just, obviously, the council, the employees, you as mayor.
Kate Henson: Yes. Yeah, it was devastating. I'm a new mayor. I was counting on having a city manager who could help mentor me as much as I was mentoring them about the city that I've lived in for 30 years and that I love and want to flourish. I will say the silver lining of it, though, we were able to come together as a council, the team is strong, and we carried each other through it.
Caroline MacGregor: In closing, what is going to take place in the interim while the search is underway for a new city manager for Chelsea?
Kate Henson: We are not currently searching for a city manager. We have an interim city manager, Mark Thompson, who has been there previously before Ms. Cole came on. And he's an incredible leader. And so, we're going to take him for at least a year and just level set. And then, give us six months. And then, we'll start looking at what does a new process look like and what kind of candidates can we start to find to fill that role.
Caroline MacGregor: You've been listening to my conversation with Chelsea City Mayor Kate Henson, and we've been talking about the recent resignation of Elle Cole and what's going to take place moving forward. Kate, thank you so much for joining us today! I know it wasn't an easy discussion for you, but I know our listeners will appreciate hearing from you.
Kate Henson: I appreciate the time! Thank you!
Caroline MacGregor: This is 89.1 WEMU-FM Ypsilanti.
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