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University of Michigan School for Environment and Sustainability
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Caroline MacGregor: You're listening to 89.1 WEMU. I'm Caroline MacGregor, and my guest today is Dr. Jonathan Overpeck. He is the Samuel A. Graham Dean of the School for Environment and Sustainability at the University of Michigan. Thank you for joining me today!
Dr. Jonathan Overpeck: I'm happy to be here!
Caroline MacGregor: With the Trump administration's attempts to overturn state climate laws, there are a lot of people very concerned at this time. Where do we stand with climate change in America?
Dr. Jonathan Overpeck: There are a number of reasons to be really concerned about what the current administration is doing. Climate change has been political for quite some time. As the fossil fuel industry, one of the richest industries ever to exist on the planet, they make a lot of money. And they have a lot at stake in not moving away from fossil fuels, which are the primary cause of global climate change. The current administration seems to be allied with fossil fuel interests more than any previous administration or at least more willing to do damage to efforts to stop climate change than any previous administration. So, that's very concerning. At the same time, there are a lot of reasons not to think that the sky is falling. Without any doubt, climate change is having an increasing effect. Many scientists, including myself, think that global warming is accelerating and hurting more lives and livelihoods than ever before around the planet and in the United States, primarily through climate extremes like heat waves and unprecedented intense rainfall and flooding, wildfires and drought and sea level rise and the effect of the combination of the sea level and increasingly large hurricanes and tropical cyclones and things like that. So, we need to stop climate change. The good news is that that transition is well underway now. And the costs of stopping climate change from switching from fossil fuel to other sources of energy, it's getting much cheaper to go with renewable energy than it is coal and even natural gas. So, you're seeing a big build out now of solar, of wind, both onshore and offshore, and battery storage. We're also seeing more of an embrace with nuclear energy now. These are all sources of energy that are low carbon. And with respect to the price, the big winners are solar and onshore wind. They're cheaper than fossil fuels now, virtually everywhere. And the costs are continuing to fall. And the costs of battery storage are continuing to fall. So, you're seeing a rapid increase in the number of electrified cars, battery cars, EVs around the world and in the United States. So, those are good reasons to think that, just by pure economics, this energy transition is well underway now.
Caroline MacGregor: We're seeing a lot of back and forth with regards to tariffs being imposed on different countries under the current administration. How will this impact the manufacture of components needed for green vehicles?
Dr. Jonathan Overpeck: The supply chains we depend on to build our EVs in the United States, Canada, and Mexico--that's our market at home, essentially. These supply chains are being affected by the tariffs. Everything's being affected the tariffs, our economy, and there are a lot of other hardships due to these tariffs. It just removes sort of a predictability and confidence in our ability to know where supplies are coming from. So, this is gonna slow down climate action in the United States. At the same time, the rest of the world is decarbonizing now full speed ahead and accelerating. You're seeing this particularly in China, India, Europe, because it's the cheapest energy on the planet. And it's a way to sort of leapfrog the need to build big fossil fuel power plants and pay for coal or petroleum or natural gas to be imported into your country. It's the cost and the energy security that come with renewable energy--clean energy--that is making it more and more unbeatable around the planet.
Caroline MacGregor: Climate change has become a political hot topic. We still have those who say it's just a big hoax. Does this surprise you?
Dr. Jonathan Overpeck: Well, it's hard to really understand. There are a couple things here. One is that we have good polling data on how Americans feel about climate change, and over 70% of Americans feel that climate change is going to hurt future generations. Thus, they agree with climate scientists. There's very little uncertainty now about the cause of climate change. It's due to the emission of greenhouse gasses by humans, primarily through the burning of fossil fuels. It's more of a political debate. And even during the election, there was no hiding behind the fact that the current administration was asking the fossil fuel industry to support his campaign for president in exchange for his help in strengthening the position of fuels if he was elected. So, that's what he's doing. But bear in mind, that, right now, 24 states in the country are part of the National Climate Alliance. More than half of the U.S. population is in these 24 states and Puerto Rico. More than a half of GDP of America is in these states. They're moving forward on climate change. Michigan is really moving forward, as is New York and California and Minnesota and a whole bunch of other states. But even more remarkable is the fact that there are states like Texas that are installing more renewable energy than any other state in the union. And this is not a democratic bastion. This is a Republican red state, and there are other Republican red states, Arizona, my previous home state--they're investing. They're going big into solar. It's a no brainer because it's cheaper and it's the future. And because climate change is really jhurting a lot of Americans now. And in Arizona, it's really bad. People are dying more from heat waves than ever before. And then, you have the longest drought the United States has ever seen since Europeans came to America. And the Colorado River, which provides water for an amazing number of Southwesterners, that river is flowing over 20% less now. We are also seeing huge uptick in large forest fires. So, the costs of climate change are getting larger, just as the cost of the solutions--the renewable energy and battery storage--are getting less costly. So, economically, Americans are saying, "Let's just leave fossil fuels behind and move to this cleaner form of energy that will help us stop climate change!"
Caroline MacGregor: What would you say to the average citizen about what they can do to help mitigate the impacts of climate change? I mean, I know we can plant trees and things, but, sometimes, I think people feel helpless as to what they could do on a personal level with so much going on in the political arena, controlling the funding for this, that and the other.
Dr. Jonathan Overpeck: Well, certainly in the political arena, what's happening is a lot of money is flowing from the incumbent fossil fuel industries to politicians to try and slow down action in America. Like I've said before, the globe is moving forward very quickly on the energy transition. And all America is doing is dragging their feet perhaps because of this money from fossil fuels, the oil industry. Big oil has big money! That's going to hurt America's competitiveness. And what the average American can do? Well, we have to talk to each other. We have to mobilize. Most Americans now know climate change is happening, know it's real. We have turn that into political action, and we have vote to stop climate change--no longer electing politicians who are acting in favor of the fossil fuel industry over Americans' lives and livelihoods. Obviously on the web, there are lots of resources where we can work together to adopt electrified mobility, using your battery powered car, using electrified everything. It's the way to go because most of our electricity is switching over to renewable energy. But I think you really got to get to the voting, and we have to start voting for climate action rather than voting for other, say, cultural controversies and things. We all are Americans. We all have a stake in having a world without climate change. And that's what we really need to start voting for.
Caroline MacGregor: How is Michigan faring right now with regards to climate change?
Dr. Jonathan Overpeck: Michigan's a great place, relatively speaking, with climate change. Our impacts so far have been far less than down in the Southeast or even Kentucky and West Virginia, where they've had horrible flooding, or out west where they're in this mega drought, and they're getting all the fires and water problems. But if climate change is allowed to continue, we'll continue to get a worse situation in Michigan too. In summer, the dry spell that we've always have, it seems, is turning into drought more often. And we have these more intense rainfall events like the rest of the world, which cause flooding. We've had dams burst near Midland. That's a symptom of climate change. So, there are a lot of reasons why we want to stop climate change in Michigan. Our Great Lakes are becoming less great. We're getting these harmful algal blooms. We're more coastal erosion. So, more than ever, it's time to really sort of lean in on industries, manufacturing, Michigan's really famous for that, where we can actually be a global player in this global decarbonization that's going on. We should be selling more batteries and more technology to the globe rather than giving it up to China and Europe. And that's another way that Michigan can stand out economically and create more jobs is to be a go-to place for climate solutions that are both stopping climate change and dealing with the climate change we can't stop. And I'd like to see Michigan become more and more of a big economic winner in this space. We already are starting to do that, and the opportunity is there to turn these big, huge challenges into a better life and a more thriving economy for Michiganders.
Caroline MacGregor: Dean Overpeck, thank you for joining me today!
Dr. Jonathan Overpeck: My pleasure!
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