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David Fair: This is 89.1 WEMU, and today, we're going to take a good amount of time to reflect and a little time to look forward as well. I'm David Fair, and it was on July 1st of 2016, Dr. James Smith officially became the president of Eastern Michigan University. A decade later, he's preparing to step away from that role. We asked for another opportunity to talk with Dr. Smith, and I'm glad to say today is that day. President Smith, thank you so much for making time for us!
Dr. James Smith: Thank you, David! Thanks for having me!
David Fair: I can remember our very first conversation ten years ago as you were taking the helm, and you spelled out a plan to work for a period of ten years and then step away. And here we are ten years later, it's worked out exactly that way. When someone starts, there is all of this hope and all of optimism and so much to look forward to in a very broad sense. Did it turn out the way you thought it would?
Dr. James Smith: Well, nothing turns out perfectly. But I think if you look at campus, you look what we've tried to reshape the campus into, we're very proud, not only as a president, but I think our entire cabinet is very proud of what we have been able to do on behalf of our students, our faculty, and our staff.
David Fair: Until the end of the month, you stand as the longest-serving public university president anywhere in the state of Michigan. Now at only ten years, does that say something about the changing nature of higher education and higher education administration?
Dr. James Smith: Well, we were off-air just a moment ago, and I said to you, David, I started doing this in 1988. And I was at Butler University in Indianapolis for my first professorship, and it was not uncommon in those days to see 15 and 20-year presidents.
David Fair: Right.
Dr. James Smith: You just don't see them anymore. I think it's the stress of the job. I think, particularly in the public space, it's the politics of the job. Private universities have a little difference because they have a buffer between public funding and and how they operate. But, yes, it has changed drastically. The five-year president's very common, the four-year presidents not uncommon, and we've seen around the Midwest the one and two-year presidents are more and more common, which really was just unheard of when I started.
David Fair: So, as you mentioned, there has been major change on campus over the past decade. Did you know walking onto campus in 2016 that technological facilities and aesthetic changes would be a part of the mission?
Dr. James Smith: We did. I think probably Strong Hall was our first. we had gotten capital outlay, Don Loppnow was our interim president, and Don had worked really hard. I got credit for that because it happened. The capital outlay happened on my first semester here, but Don really did all the spade work to make that happen. And we knew that you couldn't have a geoscience building that didn't have high-tech infrastructure. But, no, we didn't envision what we see today, where we have online coursework virtually in every discipline. As you'll remember, David, from the COVID-19 situation, we went from a virtual in-person, face-to-face university to an online university in a matter of three to five days. And, no, I never could have envisioned that, and I don't think anybody could.
David Fair: What was it like? Because that will be a hallmark of your tenure. What was is it like to administer what became a virtual university during a global pandemic?
Dr. James Smith: So, in the studio, by the way, if the listening audience could just see the difference between where we used to be and where we are now. In the studio, Walter Kraft sitting to my left, and Walter and I and our cabinet and some health experts got together every morning during COVID. It was usually about three hours, sometimes four. And we said, "What are we hearing? What's the health department telling us?" The health department would join. And then we wrote a white paper every day saying, "Here's what we know. Here's we don't know. Yet, traffic is restricted, driving on the highways," whatever it was, and I don't know that until it was over, we realized how exhausting that was. Because none of us were very good with Zoom to start, and we were spending hours and hours with a screen in front of us.
David Fair: Yeah, it wasn't time off or away from the university.
Dr. James Smith: No! Absolutely not! No!
David Fair: Well, this is 89.1 WEMU. We're talking with outgoing Eastern Michigan University President Dr. James Smith. In addition to renovations on campus, including the brand new WEMU facilities, it is part of, what I've called, an arms war of sorts as universities compete for a declining number of eligible students. In the fall of your first year in 2016, EMU had over 21,000 students. In the fall of 2025, that number just a little over 10,000. That's a dramatic difference! From the outside looking in, it would appear neither campus development of student enrollment declines are sustainable. Is that a fair assessment?
Dr. James Smith: Well, I think I've done several of these in the last few days. And I think one of the comments that I had with a print journalist was, "What is the opportunity to catch folks who left university life and are close to a degree?" So, most of the numbers I hear are around 700,000 in southeast Michigan. 700,000 individuals have credits--many credits--towards a degree. How do we get them back to finish that degree? What I think we focused on during the vast majority of my career is 18, 19, 20-year-olds. That may not be our market going forward. Our market may be more 26-year olds, 27-year olds, 31-year olds. Now, how do you do all of that? And I think what we're all learning, the students say to me, we're building the plane as we fly it. And I think we're all doing that a little bit, trying to figure out how do we get that population back into the university structure.
David Fair: And demographics tell us that probably the student pool is not going to get any better.
Dr. James Smith: The live birth rate is not on our side.
David Fair: That's right.
Dr. James Smith: And I think you see that in elementary schools. You see it in middle schools. You see it in high schools.
David Fair: So, this is a public institution with public funding. Fundraising is a huge part of the president's job. You spend an inordinate amount of time doing that part of the job. How much more important will that become with a lower student pool?
Dr. James Smith: Absolutely critical! Absolutely critical! And I think we've seen that as we did the comprehensive campaign, Give Rise. Many people thought we could not do $100 million, and we did $120 million. We know that the appetite is out there to help higher education just as the appetite is out there that help public radio. As we saw federal funding being slashed, we saw donor commitment increase. So, we have to tell our story. We have to explain to the public why we seem like we're knocking on their door a lot and then show them the outcome and show them what our students are able to do as a result of their investment.
David Fair: And when it comes to the students and the graduates, where are the most successes being shown?
Dr. James Smith: Oh, I think the story for me always is the student who says, "You know, I started here, and I really didn't ever think I'd finish. You know, I kind of did this to make Grandma happy. And now, I'm walking across the stage." It's commencement day. And some of them say, "Well, now, Dr. Smith, it was five-and-a-half years. I said, "Who cares?" I've never asked my physician how long did it take you to get through your undergraduate program.
David Fair: You probably don't want to know.
Dr. James Smith: I probably don't want to know. But I do know that that is the great accomplishment is when you see students, some of our students don't struggle at all. They come. It's an easy pathway to higher education. It's an easy pathway to graduate. They work hard, but it's a easier pathway. It's the student that says, "Look, I bartend, I wait tables, I work at the mall on the weekends." Those are the students that you say, "Boy, the odds were against you, and we helped you get there!"
David Fair: You've always said that you're a teacher at heart, and that your heart belongs in a classroom, right? Most teachers don't want to spend that much time fundraising and dealing with that component of the job. But there have been gains in private and alumni investments in EMU, and that has benefited the students moving forward. I imagine that's a real point of pride as you prepare to step away.
Dr. James Smith: It is, and I think it's more fun than people think it is. I mean, I was in Florida last week doing some donor visits, and people say, "Oh, boy! You're on the road, and it's hard work." You get to meet fascinating people. And the job of a president is to match up their passions with our needs, with student needs, with faculty research needs. And it is like sewing a big quilt. And I find it fascinating. It's hard work. Sometimes, you're disappointed because you think, "Boy, I really wanted to pitch this." And the person said, "I don't have any interest in that, Jim. I really am interested in this." And then, we do the kind of lateral arabesque, and we work to get that into play.
David Fair: We recently heard the State of the Union address. We heard Governor Whitmer's State of State address. In a paragraph, what is the state of Eastern Michigan University?
Dr. James Smith: Oh, I think we're strong! I think we have the infrastructure now to do the things we want to do. Our College of Engineering and Technology has the technology they need: the robotics labs, the 3D printers, the things that we need. What we need to do is continue to be loud and proud, if you will, of what we are and who we are, and to recognize the fact that we are a place of opportunity. John Porter said it many, many years ago. We are a place of opportunity, and we need to continue to be more in your face, if you will, with the successes of the university, with the success of our students. And I think, as we do that and continue to do that, people will say, "I get it. I get what you're doing."
David Fair: Once again our guest on 89.1 WEMU is Dr. James Smith, who, after a decade on the job, is preparing to step away as president of Eastern Michigan University. You mentioned that not everything turns out the way you imagine it may. Any regrets about your ten years on campus?
Dr. James Smith: Oh, I regret the challenge over, and it's alive and well today, the difficulty of getting visas for young men and young women who want to be here. They live all around the world. I've had the opportunity to visit many of their home countries, certainly not all 88. We had 88 represented here before the COVID pandemic. And it's very hard to wrestle intellectually with the fact that these are some of the best and the brightest kids in the world. And they just can't even get a visa interview. And I think it's shortsighted. I know it's shortsighted because I've seen what we can do helping international students see a different world, seeing the American model as I think it's played out in higher education very, very well, and then transporting that back home. So, that's one of my disappointments. I think another one is how do you crack that low birth rate egg? How do you get more of the non-traditional adult onto campus, onto Zoom, onto a format that may not be the way they saw it as an undergraduate, but they'll come back and be able to use that format to get the degree? And I think we're all struggling with that, but there is a way and we're going to get there.
David Fair: Well, perhaps, that's a perfect lead into the next question, which is, what comes next for you and your wife, Dr. Connie Ruhl-Smith?
Dr. James Smith: Well, three months or so of unboxing. We're moving south. Connie grew up in greater Cincinnati, and we're trying to buy a house in greater Cincinnati now. For the listening public, I know your pain. I've heard people say, "Boy, you don't know what a hassle it is to buy a house!" I've lived in university housing for 17 years. I was a president out west. I've been here 10 years. Buying a house is not an easy thing. And then, we're going to do some consulting work. We have a real passion for K-12 and higher education. And if there's a role we can play, we want to step into that role.
David Fair: Well, a decade from now, you're going to be sitting out on the front porch of that new house, sipping on your iced tea and enjoying the time with your wife. You're going to take some time. You're going to think back on your career, and part of that is here at Eastern Michigan University. What do you think would be most prominent in those recollections?
Dr. James Smith: I know a memory that always will be with me, and it's not a single memory. But the way the excitement exists around our commencements will always be with you. You go into a basketball arena that we've created into a very, very beautiful space for students to celebrate with Grandma and Mom and Dad and aunts and uncles and cousins, brothers and sisters, and the excitement in that facility will never escape me. It's every once in a while, a beach ball goes. And in the old days, before we had the metal detector, Grandma or Grandpa would press the air horn, and it just shows you the excitement of "Man, we made it!"
David Fair: Any successful career is built with the support help and assistance of others. Now, and unpopular name in these parts is Woody Hayes, but he wrote a book called "You Win with People." And as you step away from the relationships that you forged here at Eastern Michigan University, a tremendous and underrated faculty and staff here at Eastern Michigan what will you take away from your personal relationships?
Dr. James Smith: As I've thought a lot about this, I think the passion for caring, Our faculty and our staff will drop everything to help students get from point A to point B, and that's not true everywhere. So, I'll miss that. I'll the stories they tell. You know, I worked on this project, and it didn't go exactly as I wanted, but the graduate assistant came up with a really great idea. We made this turn, and it turned out exactly as we wanted it to. I'll miss that. I'll miss our cabinet colleagues. I've been blessed to have two executive assistants that have just been phenomenal. Lakisha Dumas is certainly the present one, but Casey Wooster was with me for seven--almost eight--of the 10 years. And I'll missed the daily interaction of them saying, "Well, your schedule's changed." You know, you walk in in the morning and you have your electronic schedule and they hand you a paper one. And it said, "Things have changed a little bit!" I'll miss that. I'll miss that interaction.
David Fair: Well, thank you for the time and for sharing today, and thank you for your time through the years! Much appreciated!
Dr. James Smith: Well, thank you, David! And for the listening group, I would just say continue to tune in to WEMU! It really is, I believe, one of the best radio stations that you're going to find anywhere in the United States, and I listen to NPR all over the country. I think I can say that with good experience!
David Fair: That is Dr. James Smith in his final WEMU interview. I'm David Fair, and this is 89.1 WEMU Ypsilanti.
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