RESOURCES:
Reelect Ann Arbor Mayor Christopher Taylor
Washtenaw County August Primary List of Candidates
TRANSCRIPTION:
Caroline MacGregor: This is 89.1 WEMU, and the August 4th primary elections are right around the corner. In fact, absentee ballots are already being distributed and collected to registered voters, and we are now looking at one of the most closely watched races in the region. This is the Democratic primary race for Mayor of Ann Arbor. Today, we'll be speaking with both of those candidates. Christopher Taylor is the incumbent mayor seeking re-election for what will be his final term. Yousef Rabhi is a self-described Democratic Socialist and currently serves as a member of the Washtenaw County Board of Commissioners. Next hour, we will talk with Yousef Rabhi for 30 minutes, but right now, I'd like to welcome Christopher Taylor to the studios of 89.1 WEMU.
Christopher Taylor: It's my great pleasure to be here! Thanks for having me!
Caroline MacGregor: Thank you so much! This is now your 12th year as Mayor of Ann Arbor. And as we draw closer to the primary, things have become a bit more contentious with your opponent, Yousef Rabhi. To start off though, tell me, first of all, what you're most proud of and what you feel that you have yet to achieve. Why are you running again?
Christopher Taylor: I'm running again because I'm incredibly excited about the work that we are doing as a municipal organization and what we're accomplishing as a community. First and foremost, we, as a municipal organization, always provide basic services. That is first and foremost improving basic services, enhancing quality of life. That is our goal and our mission, and that's what I'm excited about. We make sure the water is clean, that the firefighters show up in a flash, that the parks are well-maintained, the trash is picked up, the recycling is recycled, et cetera. That's what we're doing, and I'm excited about that project. And I don't think that it can be overestimated, the importance of that within a community. But also, I'm incredibly proud about the work that we're on affordability. Particularly, we all know that America is in an affordability crisis, and even the United States Congress recognizes that, in America, that means a housing crisis and a housing supply crisis. And we're addressing that on a number of different levels. I'm proud of the work that we are doing with respect to affordable housing. As a result of the the affordable housing millage passed in 2020, we have in the pipeline or have built 1200 units of new, permanent affordable housing throughout the city. That is going to triple--triple--the affordable housing in the City of Ann Arbor. And that's foundational. That's going to mean so much for so many people who work in Ann Arbor who can't live here. But we also know that not everybody qualifies for income-qualified housing. And so, we are working hard to protect renters with rights to renew with cost transparency, et cetera. But we also know that housing supply is a broader problem than just affordability, just rentals. And so, we have our Comprehensive Land Use Plan for affordability. The Comprehensive Land Use plan envisions more housing downtown, more housing on transit corridors, and duplexes and triplexes throughout our neighborhoods. This is a plan that will enable more housing throughout the city, more housing diversity, more units where, at different income levels, enabling people who work in Ann Arbor to live in Ann Arbor, seniors to downsize, young people to move home, divorced couples to stay. I'm excited about that work, and that's why I'm running!
Caroline MacGregor: So, both you and your opponent acknowledge the need for more affordable housing, and you've just mentioned the city's Comprehensive Land Use Plan, and this aims to change zoning restrictions to increase density in the city. Yousef Rabhi says Ann Arbor has become completely unaffordable for the working class. He doesn't believe in trickle-down housing and would like to see more low-income public housing. He says he's not in favor of large subsidies or public land deals for private developers. He says the public is paying an awful lot in taxes and rent but not getting services. He says infrastructure is crumbling. What is your response to those concerns of his?
Christopher Taylor: That's a pretty broad set. First, let's get to roads. With respect to roads, we have, over the last four years, invested $220 million in our roads, an unprecedented acceleration of resurfacings, reconstructions. We're also making sure that our roads are safe for everyone. Our roads need to be safe for all users, and I'm committed to that. The roads are a decades-long problem. We get most of our road money from the state, and we are taking unprecedented steps to improve. If you look around Ann Arbor, you will see a lot of orange cones because you can't fix the roads without fixing the roads. With respect to housing, generally, if you're interested in more public housing, sit back and watch. We are tripling--tripling--our affordable housing over the next five years. That is unprecedented! We are doing that because I led the effort to pass the affordable housing millage in 2020, something that my opponent sat on the sidelines for. And that is enabling us to take tremendous steps to have people who work in Ann Arbor to live in Ann Arbor, for people who are unhoused to have a place to live. This is crucial for our future as a city. But first and foremost, I'd also say that it is not a solution for everyone. The solution for everyone is more housing for everyone because. Not everybody qualifies for affordable housing. You need to make below $53,000 a year as an individual in order to qualify for affordable housing. If you want trades people to live in the city, if you want firefighters to live in the City, you want teachers to live in the City, you need to allow more market housing. And that is exactly what we're doing. This is not fantasy. This is no pie in the sky. This is established in the literature. It's established in the experience of other jurisdictions. We need to allow more housing downtown, more housing on transit corridors, and duplexes and triplexes--legalize them in the neighborhoods where they already exist. I'm excited about this work! With respect to taxes, I'm the only candidate who has pledged that I will not raise your property taxes. I know that taxes are high in our city. They're high because our property values are high, and I'm committed to holding the line. I'll also say, if we do nothing, the problem will get worse, and that's a crucial difference. If we do nothing, if we don't allow more housing, the demand in Ann Arbor will continue to persist. It will continue drive prices high. We can't afford to build more affordable housing than we're already doing. We're tripling it. We can ignore the fact that people who don't qualify for affordable housing need a place to live. And so, those are major differences.
Caroline MacGregor: Your opponent has said that if he becomes Mayor, affordable housing would increase greatly under his leadership. What's the difference here? Why does he say that when you say that you're already working on these projects that you've mentioned?
Christopher Taylor: Over the next five years, we are going to triple the amount of affordable housing in the City of Ann Arbor. The notion that we can go faster than that, that we could accelerate that, is a fantasy. There is not money, land, or opportunity for that to occur. We're tripling affordable housing in the City of Ann arbor. 330 units across the street from the public library, 60 units kitty corner to People's Food Co-op, 200-plus units out commerce, 209 units kitty corner to Briarwood, people are going to live here. This will be transformational. The idea that we can build even more housing by borrowing based upon the rents paid by the people who live in affordable housing is a fantasy. It just doesn't math. We don't have the land for it. We don't the resources for it. We are already taking transformational steps. It's real world. There are shovels on the ground. There will be shovels in the ground. If you want affordable housing, you need to figure out ways to pay for it, and that's exactly what I've done.
Caroline MacGregor: This is 89.1 WEMU, and we are talking with Christopher Taylor. He's the incumbent in the Democratic primary race for Ann Arbor Mayor. I'm Caroline MacGregor, and next hour, you'll hear from his opponent, Yousef Rabhi. I want to ask you a little bit more about the Comprehensive Land use Plan.
Christopher Taylor: Yeah.
Caroline MacGregor: What do you say to residents who are upset about its passage, those who say the cost of living has displaced certain residents, particularly minority communities. Gentrification is mentioned, home prices rising faster, condominiums replacing homes in the Waterhill neighborhood. What do you say to those residents who are critical of the Comprehensive Land Use plan in this regard?
Christopher Taylor: I'd say that I recognize those are problems, and those are exactly the problems that the Comprehensive Land Use Plan is designed to counter. The problems that folks identify – rising prices, dislocation – that's the result of the current condition. That's the results of extremely high housing demand in the city, largely as a result of university expansion and its combination with restrictive zoning that puts a limit on housing supply. Supply and demand is real, and it exists here in the city. And it means that people want to live here, and they will compete to do so. And the Comprehensive Land Use Plan recognizes that. It is a plan designed to accomplish affordability, equity, and sustainability. And allowing more housing in our downtown, allowing more house on transit corridors, allowing gentle density in our neighborhoods, duplexes and triplexes, this will increase housing supply. By its nature, these units will be smaller. They will be available to people at a variety of income levels. This has happened in other jurisdictions, and I believe it will happen here in the city. So, I recognize these challenges, but the challenges are a result of decades of inaction when it comes to housing supply. It's a problem that the United States Congress, of all groups, has recognized as a problem. But in Ann Arbor, we're doing something about it. We're tripling our affordable housing, income-qualified housing, and we have a vision to allow more housing for more people in the city, so that seniors can find a place to downsize, young people can move home, divorced couples can live near the school. We need more housing, and the Comprehensive Land Use Plan is a measured, forward-looking way to accomplish that goal.
Caroline MacGregor: What is your response to Yousef Rabhi's criticism of plans, your plans to repurpose the Kline--or the city's plans--to re-purpose the Kline's Lot and 415 West Washington for the construction of luxury condos? You know, he says that it's not using the land appropriately.
Christopher Taylor: First off, I recognize and am proud to have been a driving force on the use of city land for affordable housing. The parking lot kitty corner to People's Food Co-op, now it's affordable housing. The parking lot across the street from the library will be 330 units of new permanent affordable housing in our downtown. And other areas throughout the city as well where we can deploy affordable housing on city land, we do. With respect to the Kline's Lot, just talk to Jennifer Hall, the head of the Housing Commission. Not all city land is suitable for affordable housing. This land is best used for the purpose that's designated. That is housing and substantial ground floor retail. In addition, we are going to be able to utilize the proceeds of the sale for some substantial projects that are currently unfunded. We all know that the Delonis Center is overwhelmed, and that has an effect on the people who live there, crucially, but also the people who are proximate in our downtown. We know it's overwhelmed because it is the only such shelter in the county. The Washtenaw Shelter Association knows and wants to build a shelter towards the east. We're going to use some of the funding from the Klein's Lot to help them accomplish that goal. It'll be good for the folks who reside, who find shelter at Delonis, if their support networks are better attuned to the east, and it will also be good for downtown and proximate areas to take some of the pressure off, because we do know that that's an issue.
Caroline MacGregor: Alright, thank you. Moving on to energy, DTE, we're going to talk about a few things, a few entities here. Ann Arbor for Public Power is, of course, working out the final stages of a proposal to purchase the city's electrical grid from DTE, and this would create a publicly owned utility and hopes to collect enough signatures to place this on the November ballot. Meanwhile, Ann Arbor voters authorized, of course, the creation of the city's new Sustainable Energy Utility. That was passed--or voters approved that--in November last year. The city has, so far, installed solar panels and batteries on about a hundred homes, I believe, in the Bryant neighborhood, and this SEU is going to provide 100% renewable, affordable and reliable energy to those who opt in, but it's supplemental to DTE. Am I correct in saying that you've referred to DTE as a cancer on our society? And the reason I bring this up is that your challenger, Yousef Rabhi, says a complete shift to a municipalized power grid is necessary because DTE prioritizes profits over customers and uses campaign contributions to influence politicians. Why is it not an option to shift away completely from DTE? I know that you mentioned several reasons in the past.
Christopher Taylor: If we are starting our society over again, there's no question that electricity, the electric utility, ought to be municipally owned. The challenge, of course, is that we are not starting society over. Cities in Michigan that have an electric utility, Lansing, Traverse City, et cetera, they started all of their utilities, or they took over their utilities, basically in the Coolidge administration years and years, decades and decades, ago. If we were to take over DTE's electric grid here in the city, it would require the city to purchase the infrastructure in its existing condition to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. DTE also has, by law, a perpetual right to service electricity to the city. If we were to seize that, it would require the city to purchase that perpetual profits interest from DTE to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. All this too would occur after a decade-plus of profoundly contentious litigation, which would cost the city millions and millions of dollars, tens of millions reasonably. And so, once we took over the utility, we would not have the expertise to run it because we'll be going from zero to 100. And that's just functionally not practical. I mean, I'm here for affordability. I'm here to be a wise steward of city resources, a wise steward of folks' hard-earned money. And we do not have hundreds of millions of dollars to buy the infrastructure, hundreds of millions of dollars to pay for the profits' interest. And we don't have the tens of millions of dollars to fight DTE for a decade-plus to get these things. The bottom line is that we have a path to successful, affordable, sustainable public power in the City of Ann Arbor, and that is the Sustainable Energy Utility--100% renewable, reliable, affordable energy, 100 homes in our Bryant neighborhood this year, 1,000 city-wide next year, next year, next year. This is a way where residents can get first in-first out, renewable, reliable electricity, overlays DTE. And for people who want it, they'll have solar in their roofs, batteries in the back, and their electricity bills will show the difference.
Caroline MacGregor: We continue our conversation with Chris Taylor on 89.1 WEMU, and I am Caroline MacGregor. Taylor is the incumbent in the Democratic primary for Ann Arbor, and next hour, we will hear from his opponent, Yousef Rabhi. Onto the matter of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, the AFSCME union contract. They've been working without a contract since the start of 2026, and they're engaged in an ongoing dispute with the city over cost of living increases. You have stated that the city reached out to AFSCME over a year ago to begin or start negotiations, but I believe you stated the union's requests were unrealistic. And I believe they asked for a 12% cost of living wage in the first year, the second year and the third year. Correct?
Christopher Taylor: That's correct.
Caroline MacGregor: And additional economic benefits layered on top of that. And your statement at the time, I believe, was it's just not sustainable. But Yousef Rabhi, your opponent, he's now been endorsed by the union. And were you surprised that they endorsed him?
Christopher Taylor: I was not. First off, I will yield to no one in my praise, gratitude, admiration, and for the folks who work in the City of Ann Arbor. Anybody who has watched me knows that I constantly give full and due respect to city workers in word. And indeed, everything that we do as a city, we do by the hard work of our staff. Anytime you hear an elected official talking about the things that we've done, it is, in many respects, stolen valor. At the same time, I also understand that we, as a municipal organization, need to be sustainable. We can't borrow to pay our staff. We can't promise one group a 35% increase over the course of a three-year contract plus additional economic terms and then not turn around and provide that same benefit to others, plus additional economic terms. And so, where's the money coming for that? Are we going to borrow it? Are we going to raise taxes for it? Are we are going to cut services for it? There is not money to accomplish that. And when the business agent told us, in both word and deed, that getting a contract done was not on his agenda. It was not a priority of his, that. It takes two to accomplish a goal. When the union kept queuing to 12%, 12%, plus additional economic terms, we can't agree to that. That is not sustainable. We have a duty to provide services over the long term to the residents of the city. And we can only do that within our means. And that's where it is. I look forward to working with the union going forward. I look forward to mediation, where hopefully we'll have a good and productive conversation. But the bottom line is the long-term position of 12%, 12%, 12%, plus additional economic benefits was simply not sustainable.
Caroline MacGregor: And that's something that Rabhi supports. He actually supports those contract demands. But you say that's not sustainable. Onto data centers. Washtenaw County continues to attract an increasing number of data center sites, both current and proposed. There's Saline. Oracle and OpenAI are constructing a data center for their artificial intelligence project, Stargate, in Ypsilanti Township. The University of Michigan in Los Alamos, a national lab, plan to build a data center for nuclear weapons research. Now, although no data centers are currently being developed in Ann Arbor, of course, the land size comes to mind, Rabhi has expressed that these data centers are now finding ways to infiltrate or pivot into smaller cities. In other words, they're going to try to build. Some of these hyperscale data center companies are noticing that communities are pushing back. But now, they're trying to come in in a smaller size. They're trying infiltrate cities with smaller-sized data centers. Do you have any concerns about this occurring in Ann Arbor?
Christopher Taylor: We will never have a data center. In the City of Ann Arbor, the data centers go where the land is cheap. The land is not cheap in the City of Ann Arbor. The highest and best use of land in the City of Ann Arbor on the private market is housing. And that's what I'm looking to accomplish. I know that we have an affordability crisis here in the the city. And our affordability crisis in Ann Arbor is a housing crisis. And we're doing something about that--expanding affordable housing, tripling it over the next five years, and working to allow more housing in our downtown, our transit corridors, and duplexes and triplexes throughout neighborhoods. This is the way that we are working hard to accomplish affordability here in the city. Data centers are not going to be part of Ann Arbor's future.
Caroline MacGregor: And this is why you do not support a moratorium. Is that correct?
Christopher Taylor: It is not a necessity here in the city. We will not have a data center in our city.
Caroline MacGregor: All right. Onto the testy subject of campaign financing. A recent dark money mailer was sent out attacking Yousef Rabhi. This included, what he termed, as several inaccurate accusations. You've stated none of these were linked to your campaign. Rabhi has said he's no connection to any dark money groups. You've also stated that--or you've pointed people to--a list of contributors on your websiteh and that you've no idea where these mailers coming from it. Is this an effort by outside groups trying to influence Ann Arbor politics?
Christopher Taylor: I guess I'll say a couple things, or one I'll reiterate. I have nothing to do with these mailers. I have nothing to do these mailers. I condemn dark money. The role of Citizens United and money in politics has been terrible for American democracy, and that is up and down the line. I'm committed to transparency. On my website, you'll see every person who's contributed to my campaign. Crucially, and more importantly, you will see my plans for the City of Ann Arbor. You will see what I hope to accomplish for the people as their mayor. In stark contrast to my opponent's website, you will see seven-and-a-half or 12 sentences on the issues. Like, it's air. There are no plans on his website. None at all. Look at his website and see.
Caroline MacGregor: I have.
Christopher Taylor: I mean, are those plans or are those platitudes? Look at the issues page. I mean you've pushed back to me, I'll push back to you.
Caroline MacGregor: Absolutely.
Christopher Taylor: You look at the website. See what it says. Are those plans? Are those platitudes? I'll also say, again, I have nothing to do with these mailers. I gather they come from a group in Lansing. Maybe someone in Lansing has a beef with him over the course of their service. But I'll also say, and you're a journalist, are the mailers true? I've looked at some of the votes with particularity, votes with respect to the Humane Society. And I was surprised by what I learned. As folks who've been watching me over the course of my service, they know that I vote and support the Humane Society up and down the line. For years, I have voted in line with Humane Society's goals and aspirations and policy directions within the city. A vote to defund a vote against funding for cat shelters, a vote against advocating the state minimum for funding to the Humane Society, knowing that the state and minimum permits kill upon capture for cats, knowing that the state minimum permits capture for dogs and then killing after seven days. That's the state minimum. The votes against anything more than the state minimum, to my mind, was quite surprising.
Caroline MacGregor: It's a pretty big accusation. I mean, the fingers were pointed at your campaign by Rabhi's campaign with regard to these mailers. But as of yet, nobody has got to the bottom of it. But are you surprised by the negative tone this campaign has taken?
Christopher Taylor: I have been in politics...well, I say in politics, Ann Arbor Mayor is a part-time job in the city. Most of my time is spent as a lawyer. So, involved in public service, I know that things get testy in the course of a campaign. You know, people say things up and down the line. I don't hold my opponent responsible for the constant lies that are told about me on next door and by his supporters. It's not reasonable for my opponent to hold me responsible for things that anybody says besides me. I'll also say, having raised the issue of these mailers, I would ask you as a journalist to determine whether the statements in the mailers are accurate.
Caroline MacGregor: Absolutely. And we are actually trying to get to the bottom of it, and as soon as we do we will, but we haven't yet.
Christopher Taylor: All right.
Caroline MacGregor: So, I had to ask you.
Christopher Taylor: No, no. Well, I mean, I don't know the accuracy of them either. I mean their source is one thing. The content is another thing.
Caroline MacGregor: No, that's fair. That is absolutely fair. I want to ask you about Concordia. The subject of property taxes comes to mind with U of M. You have stated that because the University of Michigan was created by the state Constitution, and correct me if I say anything wrong here, they don't have to ever follow city law. They have the power of eminent domain, and they can buy or seize property if they want. They don't have to follow rules or pay taxes, which you have stated it makes it very rough from a negotiation perspective. How is the City's relationship with the University of Michigan now? Is it somewhat strained because the city doesn't want them to buy Concordia? How do you foresee things going in the future?
Christopher Taylor: Yeah, it's important, I think, to understand, when talking about the relationship between the City of Ann Arbor and the University of Michigan, the predicates that you've described are crucial to understand because we've got to work in the real world here. You know, we're not here to talk about fantasy. We are here to talk about the real world. In the real world, universities created by the state Constitution, they can buy what they want, seize what they want and when they take it or buy it, they don't have to follow any of our rules. That is the basis of our relationship. And so, fantasies about what somebody's going to get the university to do one way or the other, it's just not based on reality. But what is true is that, despite differences with respect to Concordia, et cetera, we continue to have a positive and constructive and forward-looking relationship with the University of Michigan because we understand that the University of Michigan is vital to the community and that the City of Ann Arbor--rather the university recognizes--the City of Ann Arbor is vital to the success of the University of Michigan. And so, we continue to work with them on projects of common interest. We continue to talk with them about how their actions benefit or create challenges for the city, the community, or the municipal organization. And they are interested in those conversations. They don't always concur. They don't take the exact path that we would like. But nevertheless, they recognize their role in the community, and they recognize that they are their stewards. And so, they operate on their own lights, but they also operate with that in mind.
Caroline MacGregor: All right. Well, thank you. I'm going to give a close if you're ready, or is there anything you'd like to do? Mayor Taylor, thank you so much for joining us today. Is there anything else that you would like to add?
Christopher Taylor: I guess I'd just like to say this, I'm incredibly excited about the work that we do as an organization and as a community. We have our challenges, and they are apparent, but they are a result either of the miseries of late-stage capitalism, or they are result of our success. There isn't a city in the Michigan Midwest, basically anywhere, that wouldn't trade their problems for ours. Our problems result from Ann Arbor having an amazing quality of life. We have people that want to move here. We have businesses that want open here. This means that we have high demand. We have high housing prices. And I know that this is a challenge, and I'm working hard to meet that challenge. I'm doing so by tripling affordable housing, by expanding housing for folks at all income levels throughout the city, and also constantly making sure that we, as a municipal organization, are poised to do the careful, boring, everyday work of government, so that people can can live on with their lives. We do our work best when it's in the background, and I'm excited about the project of simple, good government, and that's something that we're working on.
Caroline MacGregor: All right. Thank you for making time to discuss the issues with us today!
Christopher Taylor: You bet!
Caroline MacGregor: That is Chris Taylor. He's the incumbent candidate in the Ann Arbor mayoral Democratic primary race. We just spent 30 minutes with Christopher Taylor, and in the next hour, we will do the same with his opponent, Yousef Rabhi. Primary elections will be held on Tuesday, August 4th. We'll be following this race and much more in the lead-up to Election Day. And then, the WEMU news team will provide you election results and reaction after the votes are all counted. I'm Caroline MacGregor, and this is your community NPR station, 89.1 WEMU, Ypsilanti.
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