RESOURCES:
3rd Annual Washtenaw Community Violence Intervention Summit
Community Violence Intervention Team (CVIT) Recommendations
Intentional Counseling Services
TRANSCRIPTION:
David Fair: This is 89.1 WEMU, and I'm David Fair. And we're here today to discuss ongoing violence prevention efforts in Washtenaw County--in particular, gun violence. There are a variety of ways to talk about it. There is statistical analysis. There is organization and community effort. And then, there's the personal. We're here to look at all of those perspectives today. On Monday, April 28th, the third annual Washtenaw Community Violence Intervention Summit will begin. It's a two-day event being held at the Morris Lawrence Building on the campus of Washtenaw Community College. Two of the participants are with us today. Stacey Mack is a social worker and therapist who lost her son to gun violence last year. And, Mrs. Mack, thank you so much for coming in to share your story today! I appreciate it!
Stacey Mack: Thank you for having me!
David Fair: And our other guest is Washtenaw County Racial Equity Officer, Derrick Jackson, who's been involved from the inception of the Washtenaw Community Violence Intervention Team. Glad you could make it back today, Derrick! I appreciate it!
Derrick Jackson: Thank you for having us!
David Fair: Well, Derrick, back in 2023, Washtenaw County had its deadliest year in a decade with 22 people whose deaths were ruled a homicide. Figures for 2024 show there had been some decline, but gun violence remains relatively prevalent in our community. Do you think the ongoing prevention and intervention efforts are working?
Derrick Jackson: Absolutely! I mean, it's not just a one-size-fits-all or a magic wand. I mean, we're talking about some pretty significant issues and a lot of anger and hate when you think about pulling a trigger and taking someone's life. But when you look at the difference between what happened in 2024 and the significant drop between 2023 and 2024, we believe we're having some impact, definitely. And there are specific cases I could share where we're actually seeing people put down a gun and resolve their anger and their beefs in a much different way.
David Fair: Certainly, some good news to be had there that we'll explore more, but for all too many, reading of trends and statistics lacks the deeply personal nature of the impacts of gun violence. And, Stacey, it's been less than a year since you lost your son in a shooting in Ypsilanti Township. Take a moment and tell us about your son, Sean Cameron. Who was he?
Stacey Mack: So, Sean was a young man that was evolving into what I call a man. Struggle was real. Single mother trying to figure life out with an African-American son that had a head of his own and a destiny. But the last three years, we saw Sean to evolve and becoming a coach, a mentor. We saw someone that was not impulsive, and he was able to process things. So, we got to see him be what we desired. We would love to have had him longer, but we respect the time we have had with Sean.
David Fair: And as a coach and a mentor, he was truly beloved and was making a difference for younger people in the community.
Stacey Mack: Absolutely! We give when we don't have anything else to give, and we love when we don't know what to do. And so, as Sean was evolving into Sean, he went back to go to work with those where the areas he had struggled in. And he was awesome there!
David Fair: It was May 20th of last year when Sean was killed. On May 20th of this year, my eldest daughter is going to turn 32 years old. And I think I'm like all parents: the thought of losing a child sends shocking shivers down my spine. In order to keep those thoughts away, we convince ourselves it can never happen in my family. How have you been processing this loss over the past 11 months?
Stacey Mack: So, you said it: processing it. One day, there's tears, and another day, I'm sitting here talking to you about it. But we respect the grief part of it, and we're thankful. We have a foundation that's called Coach Cameron Transformation Foundation. So, we let him live on through there. I have to say, grief is real. I know it as a therapist, but now, I know it as the mother. And so, each day, I take one day at a time. Some days, it's just a day of crying and memories. And some day is how do we carry his legacy forward? And how do respect him as a brother, an uncle, a son? How do we keep going one day at a time? And we do things like this. This right here, the violence summit, it helps because it allows me to tell the story, not a theory. It's what I live day to day.
David Fair: Sean was 37 years old when he was killed, and it appears to have been over a simple argument. And, Derrick, the shooter was caught and prosecuted and, at the time of the shooting, he was only 20 years old. That's another life, another family, dramatically and adversely impacted. When you encounter those who are incarcerated or returning from incarceration, do you ask if they consider the ripple impacts of their singular event?
Derrick Jackson: It depends on where they're at, but, yes. Like, right now, some of the biggest impactors and interventionists to stop the violence are those who've perpetuated violence in the past. And so, those who are on their path to redemption, they understand what their impact is, and, every other week, we meet as the CVIT team. And the most important voices in that room are those who've been directly impacted or who've have perpetuated the violence. And often, the conversation is just about that: the unintended consequences. Yes, I pulled the trigger. I often say that people who have taken a life, most of the time people say, "I can't believe they did that." So, they murdered someone, but they're not necessarily cold killers, right? And that may sound funny to some folks, or they don't understand that world, but that's a lot about what we try to deal with in the CVIT team is educating the community, letting them know how this happens, but then also, elevating those voices like you just asked. And it's a big part of their personal redemption is to continue to give back and stop anyone else from pulling that trigger.
David Fair: This is 89.1 WEMU, and we're talking about violence prevention and intervention with Washtenaw County Racial Equity Officer Derrick Jackson and with Stacey Mack, who, in May of 2024, lost her son to gun violence. Both are going to be a part of the two-day, third annual Washtenaw Community Violence Interventional Summit at Washtnaw Community College. That summit begins on Monday, April 28th. Derrick, how does the intervention team help prevent violence in the community? What is the actual outreach protocol?
Derrick Jackson: Yeah. Well, I think there's a couple pieces, right? We put together a 14-point plan that we sent to the community. If we can do these 14 things in Washtenaw County, we can start to impact violence. One of them was just creating an alert system, so that those who understand when the violence is happening and know how to put their hands in the ground and wrap around folks to prevent retaliatory violence, that we can actually do something. So, there are 14 things we've been trying to enact, but what happens is law enforcement gets a call or the hospital sees someone that shows up, they really alert this ecosystem. And then, you have interventionists who, by the name, the relationship, their story, they can intervene. About 80% of the shootings in Washtenaw County have been retaliatory in nature. So, one of the biggest things we've tried to do, and they're still doing it now at the Sheriff's Office, is WeLIVE, right, where WeLIVE interventionists will go into the hospital room with a victim, a survivor of gun violence, and start to deal with right from the beginning of their recovery to deal with that anger, that fear, and that trauma, so they are less likely to retaliate. And they've had some phenomenal success at the Sheriff's Office and continue to do some of that work.
David Fair: There is a great deal of courage that goes into taking on that role.
Derrick Jackson: Absolutely! There has to be, right? We're not talking about a simple little fight where someone punched you and you got a bloody nose. We're talking about people pulling guns, attempting to take someone's life. And so, you've got to have a lot of skill. Yes, you gotta have a lot of courage and ability. So, the summit allows us to train and to talk about that expertise.
David Fair: Stacey, as we mentioned, you are a social worker, and I didn't mention, but you are owner and lead therapist at Intentional Counseling Services in Ypsilanti. You mentioned that you now have a different perspective on grief. Has gun violence and the loss of your son impacted the way you interact with clients or view the importance of those interactions?
Stacey Mack: Absolutely! Theory tells me you go ABC. Reality says it may be A today and Z tomorrow. It may be that they're angry. It may they don't understand the why. It may just be sitting there hugging someone or being able to just talk about it. Because, in the beginning, when the violence happened, there's a lot of people surrounding you. But as the days go by, it gets lonely. And there's a place for that individual. For me, Sean, will he call me? Will I see him? I need to tell him this or something happens. And so, trying to understand that it's ongoing. It's a journey. And so, that's the way I look at it now--a journey.
David Fair: And as part of that journey, you've decided to take your message out into the community, so, perhaps, other mothers don't have to go through what you've dealt with over the past 11 months. When you are a panelist at the summit, Stacey, you're going to be alongside other mothers who have lost their sons to gun violence. What, as a collective, do you hope to impart to those who come to hear all of you?
Stacey Mack: I want to impart to them that violence is real in Washtenaw County, but we can help by making some choices. The young man, as you indicated, was 20 years old, Derrick said. I choose to forgive him because, again, if I don't, that becomes toxic for me. And I'm hoping to share with them that the toximony will not help the violence, But if we learn how to embrace it, that does not mean I don't have anger or rage, none of that, but I can get with people and we can begin to talk about it and we heal together. I think of it as a sore. When you first get that sore, it's a lot of pain. You may have to get some peroxide, antibiotic or something to clean it out. But if I get it clean, now we can heal. But that does not mean that if it don't get bumped, that pain is not there. So, I'm hoping that, at the summit, we will be able to have a courageous conversation. As I think about the summit, I think of that call on May the 20th. I think about talking to Derrick. And I would like to take the mothers there, but I want to invite the audience in with us--that call.
David Fair: And, Derrick, from a broader perspective, what is the overarching goal of the summit?
Derrick Jackson: I think our number one, primary, ultimate goal is to stop gun violence in Washtenaw County. People may say that's too aspirational. We've seen drops, we know what some of the issues are, and we're hyper-focused on that interpersonal, street-level violence. There are lots of gun violence and homicides, and the numbers that you rattled off in the beginning, not that those are not important, but we, as a CVIT team, are hyper-focussed on individual interpersonal violence. Some of the gang violence on the streets or things that happened to Sean where Sean is standing up for someone, and the next thing you know, he's in the middle of an argument. And someone takes out a gun and shoots him. And so, that's really what we are focused on, and we really want to end it in Washtenaw County.
David Fair: Will the Washtenaw County Mental Health Services millage be of assistance toward that aspirational goal?
Derrick Jackson: I think so. It has already been, right? Like, I think there are some mental health challenges here, but there's so many other things, right? Washtenaw County was one of six communities in all the state of Michigan that the state level community violence office gave us nearly a million dollars to help build out our ecosystem. Washtenaw County government has put in money through the community priority fund through ARPA dollars to actually help not just with direct community violence intervention work, but how do you build the capacity in the organizations that know how to do this grassroots work? It isn't just law enforcement. It isn't the intervention team. It isn't just mothers. It's literally all of us coming together, and that's one of the things that I think is unique in Washtenaw. We have everybody around that CVIT table. And if you can listen to Stacey in just these few minutes, I wish we had hours to talk to her because this is the most important voice in this conversation, take the politics out of it, take the lack of resources out of it, when you listen to the mothers and their pain and their experience, that's really what we wanna highlight.
David Fair: And, Stacey, I assume that you intend to carry your experience forward beyond the summit and continue sharing with the community in hopes of making a difference in your son Sean Cameron's name. What will be next after the summit?
Stacey Mack: So, after the summit, we will be celebrating Sean's life sometime in May with a grief panel that we will do virtual. We will continue to support Derrick in the summit. We will continued to carry that legacy around by interacting, even with the ones that have pulled the trigger, to have a conversation of the ripple effect that it has and to ensure that education is out here. I think if we're gonna stop the violence, we got to educate at all levels. That's kindergarten on up, that's in the school, that's in the church, that's in the community, but not be afraid to have these courageous conversation. It may come with tears, it may come anger, but able to have a conversation and say, "What can we do besides shoot?" There has to be another alternative. One moment--one impulse decision--has impacted my life and the young man's mother's life who pulled that trigger. That was one moment decision.
David Fair: And, Derrick, what's next for the intervention team between the third annual summit and, what I assume, will be the fourth annual summit next year?
Derrick Jackson: Yeah. I think we continue to meet and expand. Each year, you see, we're getting further upstream, where we were just responding to retaliatory violence. Now, we're talking about redemption and what does that mean. Last year, we gave out 500 car gun safes for free to the community because we realized about 38% of guns are stolen from vehicles. So, there were law-abiding citizens who had guns that were unsecured. They leave it under their car seats or leave it in their glove boxes. The most important part, and Stacey mentioned it, it's about education. So, this is not just a summit for moms who lost sons or people who live in a particular neighborhood. If you're a doctor or a nurse who work in the hospital where you see violent victims and survivors, if you're a teacher who worked in schools and you're going to be talking to the younger siblings or maybe one of the kids who was on Sean's football team, this is major ripple effects. So, yes, social workers, parents, survivors, police officers--we want everybody in that room together!
David Fair: I'd like to thank both of you for the time today! And, Mrs. Mack, thank you, especially, for sharing your most difficult personal story.
Stacey Mack: Thank you!
David Fair: That is Mrs. Stacey Mack, owner and lead therapist at Intentional Counseling Services in Ypsilanti. She is among the far too many in this community who have lost a loved one to gun violence. The other voice you've heard this morning is that of Derrick Jackson. He is the Washtenaw County Racial Equity Officer. Both will be part of the upcoming third annual Washtenaw Community Violence Innovation Summit. Thank you so much, Derrick! I appreciate it!
Derrick Jackson: Thank you!
David Fair: This summit will take place beginning Monday, April 28th at the Morris Lawrence Building on the Washtenaw Community College campus. It is a two-day event. For more information, check in at our website at wemu.org. We'll get you everywhere you want to go. I'm David Fair, and this is your community NPR station, 89-1 WEMU FM, Ypsilanti.
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